Filling A 20lb Propane Cylinder Off A 1000 Gallon Tank--anybody Done It? - Building & Construction - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-27-2011, 03:05 PM   #16
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


Here is another link which is far more informative.

http://yarchive.net/car/rv/propane_refill.html

Mark

Advertisement

__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 03:06 PM   #17
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,486
Rewards Points: 2,620
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


Isn't the Internet a wonderful research tool?

One minute we know nothing and the next minute we are experts.
__________________
XXX
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 03:33 PM   #18
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


Thats funny, expert, hardly, would I do it absolutely not, have many other done it successfully, yes absolutely.

You sound skepticle, but I believe that is your nature.

Mark
__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 04:07 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 9,519
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
do your neighbors know your attempting this?

Where's jbeale?
Over there, and there and...
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
__________________
Ron
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
B. Franklin 1759
Ron6519 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 04:20 PM   #20
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,486
Rewards Points: 2,620
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


I exhausted everything I knew about it in my first post. The only reason I knew that about it is because we use propane and when I allowed the tank to run out accidentally I got my butt chewed on by my propane supplier and then they had yo come out a perform some kind of a phony "TEST" before they would fill my tank. Running out of propane is a no-no.

They charged me forty dollars for the test so made sure I was there to observe the "testing" process. What a crock of crap that was. In the meantime I learned about liquid propane and gaseous propane. They charged my tank with vapor only to do the test. Vapor equalization in my tank necessary to perform the test resulted in the condensing of about 1/5 of a gallon of liquid I was told.

Personally I think what is being suggested is a bad idea. Skeptical is hardly the word to use.

Some things of a dangerous nature are just better off left to those that have the experience. I have an old tree stump I would love to blow to smithereens but you won't see me concocting an explosive and setting-off the charge.
__________________
XXX
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 05:12 PM   #21
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


Perhaps a propane filling station under the tree trunk.......
__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 01:59 AM   #22
Remodeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 250
Rewards Points: 172
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


We fill propane tanks for multiple forklifts this way 3-4 times a day; easily over a thousand times a year. We have a hose connected to the liquid valve on a 1000 gallon tank. It actually comes off the top of the tank, but the valve has a dip tube that reaches near the bottom to draw liquid. Most tanks have a liquid valve in addition to the vapor valve. To fill a tank you connect the hose to the portable tank, open the bleed valve on the small propane tank and as the vapor is expelled the liquid flows from the higher pressure to the lower pressure.

Our forklift tanks have separate bleed screws to vent the vapor while filling, most regular 20# tanks have a bleed screw on the side of the valve, it takes a screwdriver to open this valve, I have filled many of these. It bleeds vapor but also acts as a spitter valve. When the tank reaches the point filling should cease, liquid begins to expel from the valve.

Propane has a very low boiling point (-44F), it rapidly changes from liquid to gas so while the liquid expelling from the vapor bleed looks different than vapor, very little is actually liquid as it changes to vapor almost immediately.

It seems as though it would be very dangerous and probably would be if you filled tanks indoors. Outside; the vapors are quickly carried away and do not build up. We have filled thousands of tanks over 30 years without a single problem.
iamrfixit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 04:35 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
Rewards Points: 256
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


The tank that wagner shows upended, would not be filled by a properly trained person. The rust would on the bottom of the tank would render the tank unusable. The upside down tank would put LP into the other tank, but where is the pop-off valve to release an over pressure situation? I had the recharge setup at one time so I could refill my disposable tanks. At that time, it was not illegal to fill disposable tanks, but it was against Fed DOT to transport them. My experience was the amount of propane I could put into the small tank was just not worth the hassle. Do it the safe way, not the jackleg way.

Gas, leaks make your house sneeze and go BOOM!!!
fireguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 11:01 AM   #24
Remodeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 250
Rewards Points: 172
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeall View Post
I thought the pressure in the larger tank would overcome the effects of gravity and give me a partial fill in the smaller, 20lb cylinder. E.g., if my 1000 gallon tank was 60% filled, my 20lb cylinder would wind up 60% filled.
-Josh
It does not work this way, letting the pressure equalize you would get at most only a few pounds of liquid into the 20# cylinder no matter how long you wait and no matter how full or how large your supply tank is. To get even this much the tank would have to be completely bled down to zero pressure and cooled prior to filling. As soon as the pressure in both tanks equalize the flow completely stops.

To get liquid to continue to flow; the pressure must be reduced in the tank you are filling, this is why the bleed screw is used. The vapor escapes the tank allowing flow from higher pressure to lower pressure. With the pressure reduction the liquid in the tank becomes very cold, even frosting the tank. This cold further slows the boil off rate minimizing vapor production.

Filling tanks with a pump is different, the more rapid flow of liquid cools the tank; this lower temp and the pressure inside the tank controls the boil off rate allowing propane liquid to be pumped in with only a small increase in pressure. The pump can easily overcome the pressure and continue filling. The tank is weighed because that is the only indication of fill level. The tank must not be filled more than 80% as this allows for expansion of the liquid.

If the tank is overfilled; when the liquid expands it has nowhere to go and must push out the relief valve. If this occurs in an enclosed area, for instance while the tank is sitting in your trunk or stored in your garage the result could be catastrophic.
iamrfixit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2011, 10:12 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 97
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


I do a lot of traveling with my camper. I use several devices (lights, grill, etc) that use the 1lb tanks. The camper carries 2 40lb tanks and I have 2 20lb tanks at home. I got tired of spending the money to buy the 1lb tanks and bought the adapter. I've tried to equalize pressure, but I've never got a decent fill like that and end up redoing it again quickly. Keep in mind, not sure if this is actually illegal, but it's definitely in the not recommended category.

My procedures (learned from many others who've done this before me) are to put the small tanks in the freezer for an hour or two. *Side note* I have serialized all my canisters and have the max fill weights in grams wrote on them. They are weighed first, then frozen. Let them get really really cold. The adapter I bought is put in the tank (valve is closed). I grab one bottle from the freezer at a time and screw it into the adapter. I open the valve, turn the whole assembly upside down and let it flow for a few moments. I check the weights frequently until I get within 10% of the max fill weight.

I think the trick here, is to turn the whole thing upside down so you're moving the liquid, not the vapor. I have no clue how you'd do that with an underground tank.
myowneq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 12:02 AM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Prather California
Posts: 40
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by iamrfixit View Post
We fill propane tanks for multiple forklifts this way 3-4 times a day; easily over a thousand times a year. We have a hose connected to the liquid valve on a 1000 gallon tank. It actually comes off the top of the tank, but the valve has a dip tube that reaches near the bottom to draw liquid. Most tanks have a liquid valve in addition to the vapor valve. To fill a tank you connect the hose to the portable tank, open the bleed valve on the small propane tank and as the vapor is expelled the liquid flows from the higher pressure to the lower pressure.

Our forklift tanks have separate bleed screws to vent the vapor while filling, most regular 20# tanks have a bleed screw on the side of the valve, it takes a screwdriver to open this valve, I have filled many of these. It bleeds vapor but also acts as a spitter valve. When the tank reaches the point filling should cease, liquid begins to expel from the valve.

Propane has a very low boiling point (-44F), it rapidly changes from liquid to gas so while the liquid expelling from the vapor bleed looks different than vapor, very little is actually liquid as it changes to vapor almost immediately.

It seems as though it would be very dangerous and probably would be if you filled tanks indoors. Outside; the vapors are quickly carried away and do not build up. We have filled thousands of tanks over 30 years without a single problem.
The only other thing I would add is to read up on grounding and bonding of tanks so you do not get a static discharge when dis-connecting.
CaptainD51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 12:30 AM   #27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,007
Rewards Points: 2,080
Default

Filling a 20lb propane cylinder off a 1000 gallon tank--anybody done it?


"This web site is dedicated to the contracting trades, an activity which is inherently dangerous. You should not depend on information gleaned from this site for your personal safety. Your safety depends upon your own judgment based on competent instruction, experience, and a realistic assessment of ability.
There are no warranties, either expressed or implied, that the information on this website is accurate and reliable. Your use of this site indicates your assumption of the risk of death or serious injury and is an acknowledgement of your own sole responsibility for your safety." From our "Terms of service" at bottom right of page.


Gary

Advertisement

__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A.O. Smith Vertex vs Vertex 100 vs 75 gallon tank. TopRowSeat Plumbing 7 01-11-2012 04:15 PM
Propane Mower Conversion homerb Green Home Improvement 18 09-16-2010 01:01 PM
gas (propane) cooktop off a BBQ tank pstock Appliances 0 06-26-2010 10:21 AM
propane tank switch. waverly guy HVAC 13 09-14-2009 09:25 AM
Nightmare water tank job Marvin Gardens Plumbing 6 11-04-2008 12:09 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts