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Old 01-30-2013, 02:00 PM   #1
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


What's the typical procedure for fastening a wall frame to the subfloor? Almost all of my walls make a creaking/poping/snaping at the baseboards when you walk by them.

I managed to use about 4" screws/lags about every 8" where possible from the basement to screw through the subfloor and into the horizontal 2x4 (the "plate"? Not sure of its technical term) and the noise was GREATLY reduced. I could see what looks like simple framing nails, about one every stud, sometimes more spaced. is That typically all that's required when a home is built? a framing nail here and there? I guess it's possible they used liquid nails or similar, but after 12ish years I guess the glue dried out.

My bigger problem is the second floor. Luckily I'm installing hardwood throughout, so I can screw in lags when I take the baseboards off.

I guess I'm just curious as to what the usual procedure is during home construction. I'm looking to get a home built several years down the road and want to ensure the right procedures are followed.

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Old 01-30-2013, 02:11 PM   #2
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


Three nails in each stud, two on one side and one in the middle in the other side.
There should be no need for any lags in the bottom plates. Should have been just 2, 3" nails between each stud should work.
All there doing is keeping the bottom of the wall from moving in or out, not preventing it from moving up and down.
Far more likly your dealing with under sized floor joist or under sized of fastened subflooring, so as you walk by somethings moving.

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Old 01-30-2013, 02:30 PM   #3
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


I'm 99% sure the joists are undersized. My 35 and 45 pound kids can make half the house shake when they're jumping around. The joists are 10" engineered I's. When I measured their length between some type of support(central beam, outer cement wall, etc) they were at the absolute maximum for that size that's "technically" allowed. I know some variance depending on the manufacturer is allowed, but I would have paid the extra few bucks for 11" minimum if I was the one who originally built the home.

The flooring is 3/4" OSB.

I think they must have built the house in a VERY humid season. I mentioned this in a different thread, but the amount of "shrinkage/flex" between humid and dry seasons is ridiculous. I now have crown molding pulling away from the ceiling and separating at all the corners. I even have interior door trim separating at the corners. The worst, however is the master bedroom as there are 2 walk-in closets and a bunch of other small walls due to the psuedo hallway to the master bathroom. It's impossible to use the bathroom at night without waking half the house due to the walls popping so loudly.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:39 PM   #4
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


Are they still exposted?
Georgia Pacfic suggest adding 3/4 plywood or OSB in the webbing using constrution adhesive and nails to take out the flex.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:06 PM   #5
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


Webbing?
I have this type: Name:  joists2.jpg
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Size:  9.1 KB

Not this type: Fastening wall framing to subfloor?-joist.jpg


The basement joists are still exposed, yes, but not the 2nd floor
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:24 PM   #6
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


The OSB is the web. The lumber at the top and bottom would be called flanges.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:54 PM   #7
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


I had already guessed that you have undersized joists----I've seen this before---screws from below--a good choice----

I've had to build support walls and even stiffen up joists in situations like yours---

One house was so bad that the upright piano would wobble into the wall if you bounced the floor--
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:05 PM   #8
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


So by shoring up the joists, do you mean placing the ply/osb next to the webbing or connecting the spans? see image.

Red area or orange?
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:37 AM   #9
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


Either option works----gluing a slice (red option) works well without chewing up the flanged wood with a lot of nails----
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:22 PM   #10
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Fastening wall framing to subfloor?


If you have a concentrated load, like at a bearing point, use the web stiffeners (red one), they help the web take the loads. To reinforce the joists for less deflection (adding strength/stiffness to the top/bottom flanges), use the orange one, pp. 5, 6; http://cmfac.groups.et.byu.net/tharm...ng%20guide.pdf
Add mid-span TJI blocking- pp.5, for helping distribute concentrated loads (as when walking across room). Web stiffeners require 1/8" gap to top flange, in instructions.

Gary
PS. add some strapping to the joist bottoms, required at install or drywall, a big reason for excessive deflection; http://www.woodbywy.com/literature/TB-104.pdf

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