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Old 09-14-2009, 12:59 PM   #16
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


For your Ipe question, I believe the spacing between boards is 1/4" for the 5/4X6.

But to be sure, the place you purchase your Ipe from should have access to an information sheet. At the very least, they should be able to direct you to a suppliers website. From my experience you will get a different answer from everyone you talk to. So much information out there.

Good luck with your project and please post pictures.

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Old 09-14-2009, 03:40 PM   #17
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


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Originally Posted by rocketdoctor View Post
I am a software engineer and even though I have done lots of DIY projects, nothing has ever been simple or level so nothing personal taken. You are correct about the SDS, my nieghbor let me his and it does rock, I am using the 3/8" bit for 3/8' redheads. I wire brush and blow the air out (I even have a tip on blower to get it all the way down in the hole). The redheads don't go in easy I have to tap them quite a bit to set them to their dept and then they don't seem to set. Hitting them harder causes the threads to get messed up. I know I must be doing something wrong here. I think I'll try the sleeved ones if I can find them, I think the holding power will be sufficient. I was thinking epoxy as well but I think that would be pricey and time consuming for the 50 that I have to install.

the 3/8 sds bit you are using doesn't happen to be blue on the tool end, or have a WB stamped on it does it?
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:41 PM   #18
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


Rocket: epoxy is a total waste of time and money, if you set a wedge anchor properly HELL will freeze over before it lets loose :}:}:}:}
A suggestion; head out to blowes or homedumpo, buy a Bosch bit the size stated on the BOX of anchors, drill a good 1/2" or more DEEPER, clean out lika ya doin, as far as whacking em in get a DEADBLOW hammer, double nut right at the top, you should NOT have any problems what so ever.
I really suspect the drill bit u have is no good
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:00 PM   #19
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


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Originally Posted by skymaster View Post
Rocket: epoxy is a total waste of time and money, if you set a wedge anchor properly HELL will freeze over before it lets loose :}:}:}:}
epoxy is probably overkill for this application, but there are many applications were it is the ONLY option. Wedge anchors fail all the time, and proper installation is secondary to proper specification.

i also suspect a bad bit, but it could be voids in your concrete or even faulty anchors as well

Last edited by Mr Chips; 09-14-2009 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:20 PM   #20
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


Quote:
Originally Posted by skymaster View Post
Rocket: epoxy is a total waste of time and money, if you set a wedge anchor properly HELL will freeze over before it lets loose :}:}:}:}
A suggestion; head out to blowes or homedumpo, buy a Bosch bit the size stated on the BOX of anchors, drill a good 1/2" or more DEEPER, clean out lika ya doin, as far as whacking em in get a DEADBLOW hammer, double nut right at the top, you should NOT have any problems what so ever.
I really suspect the drill bit u have is no good
Jack
pretty much did this except doublenut and deadblow. I'll give them one more try with that method
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:01 AM   #21
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


Rocket: I re read youR info and I figured out what the problem is: YOU IZ ON DA LEFT COAST!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLMAO
Reall tho it is baffeling. Are you pre drilling the holes in the sleepers oversized?
Here is my method: layout da holes in the sleeper, predrill them a good 1/8 to 1/4 oversize, lay sleeper in position and use it as a template to just start each hole, remove it, drill the concrete, clean out, put sleeper back down, tap anchors into holes,tighten. When I put anchors in I only leave enuf threads to get full nut and washer on with 1/4" or so of thread exposed after I tighten them. They WILL pull up a bit when you tighten so that is Y I start with a lesser amount of stud above the sleeper. Wish we were closer cause I would find out and fix this problem for ya.
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Old 09-15-2009, 03:17 PM   #22
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


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I figured out what the problem is: YOU IZ ON DA LEFT COAST!!!!!!!!!!!!
'

Skymaster , very funny,

Not having any problems getting the sleepers set, just getting anchors to set on some other places I was practicing. Im going to practice a couple more times , also try a different different drill bit see if the anchor will set easier.
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Old 09-15-2009, 03:41 PM   #23
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


Take a look at both ends of your bit. on the shank end, make sure it's not painted blue, or has a WB stamped on it. if it does, this bit is made for a specific product and is slightly undersized, even though it might say 3/8" (or whatever size you need) , go buy a new bit

on the tip, the carbide should be slightly wider than the shank on both sides, if they are not, the bit you are using is simply worn out, and a fresh bit might be all you need
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:36 AM   #24
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


The red heads are a name brand of wedge anchor. The problem with red heads is in most cases the installer and not the fastener. There is a
instalation video on you-tube. The wedge anchor is designed for solid concrete and should work fine in your application http://www.wedge-type-anchor.com/
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:46 AM   #25
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Dyna bolts are only for brick and block

That would be entirely incorrect. Sleeve anchors (which is what a DynaBolt is) work GREAT in concrete, and are recommended for concrete by every manufacturer of them that I can think of

i agree that operator error is the main factor for wedge failure, which is another reason to use sleeve anchors if your design specs will allow it. they install MUCH easier

Because of their design, they tend to offer lower tension and shear loads than a similiarly sized wedge anchor, ( EX: a 3/8 sleeve anchor utilizes a 5/16" bolt, while a 3/8" wedge is a true 3/8") which is why in solid concrete, wedge anchors are the perferred choice.

http://www.itw-redhead.com/dynabolt_prod01.asp

Quote:
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The red heads are a name brand of wedge anchor
Not exactly..... ITW's brand name for their wedge anchor is a TruBolt. Red Head is actually the name of an entire anchoring line that used to be known as Ramset and Ramset/Redhead. Now ITW uses the Ramset brandname for their fastening lines (gas and powder actuated) and Red Head for their anchoring product line (chemical adhesives, sleeve anchors, blue screws, wedge anchors etc...)

The original Ramset Red Head was actually what is now their Stud anchor http://www.itw-redhead.com/stud01.asp
It's similiar but it came with a little red wedge that you stuck in the bottom of the stud. when you drove this against the bottom of the hole, it caused the anchor to expand. These are not very popular any more because your hole depth is important, whereas a wedge or Sleeve anchor can be set in a bottomless hole

Last edited by Mr Chips; 09-17-2009 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Added links
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:10 AM   #26
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


Mr. Chips, the wedge anchor is designed for solid concrete and the sleeve anchor is designed for brick and block. The sleeve anchor can be used in concete and will get the job done but with lower holding values. I dont use the red head brand because they are made in china. In most cases it comes down to personal preference. I have seen the sleeve anchor used in many base materials and have only seen it fail when the base material has failed.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:49 AM   #27
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronx View Post
Mr. Chips, the wedge anchor is designed for solid concrete and the sleeve anchor is designed for brick and block. The sleeve anchor can be used in concete and will get the job done but with lower holding values. I dont use the red head brand because they are made in china. In most cases it comes down to personal preference. I have seen the sleeve anchor used in many base materials and have only seen it fail when the base material has failed.
I'm not trying to scold you, but I felt that you were giving bad information, and felt that it needed to be corrected, especially since the OP was looking for a solution to a problem were this product could be the answer.

In his posts on this thread he repeatedly said that for some reason he was having no luck using wedge anchors. I don't think it is the anchors, but i have seen first hand instances where bad anchors did get into the market, and I think you may have too, since you are reluctant to use anchors from China.

I suggested sleeve anchors, since they are much easier to use, and as you admit in your last post "will get the job done", which is EXACTLY what the OP is trying to do. Had your last post been your only post, I might have still responded to find out whose anchors you do use ( Wejit is the only US manufacturer i can think of), but that's about it.

I was concerned that you gave the OP misinformation when you said that sleeve anchors are only for brick and block, since this is totally false, and actually I feel that sleeve anchors might be the perfect product for this user, in this application. I have no idea how you know that sleeve anchors were "designed for brick and block" and I would love to know what your source is for this statement. My guess is that sleeve anchors were designed to be a medium-heavy duty anchor that work in many substrates, making them much more versitle than many products on the market at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronx View Post
I have seen the sleeve anchor used in many base materials and have only seen it fail when the base material has failed.
One of the biggest failures of sleeve anchors used in solid concrete I have ever seen occurs during installation. Installers will often overtorque them, causing the plowbolt to snap or pull through the sleeve.

Last edited by Mr Chips; 09-17-2009 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:15 AM   #28
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


No hard feelings. The sleeve anchors are made in the USA also by Marksman Mfg. in NYC
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:30 PM   #29
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


well I got all my sleepers cut last weekend and have been dreading the task of installing them this weekend with 40 redheads. Another contractor recommeded TapCon concrete screws instead, I think I am going to go this route it will save me a lot of time and I also won't have to worry as much of the placement of the 1/4 screws as I was with the wedge anchors since this would have required a 3/4 countersink. The concrete pass is not a standalone deck there are joists on both sides of it so when the boards are down everything shoud hold together just fine.

P.S. I think I finally figured how to install the red heads correctly
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:39 PM   #30
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Fastening sleepers to concrete


make sure the screws will give you the load values you need

there is a HUGE difference in both tension and shear values between wedge anchors and blue screws....like using classroom paste instead of construction adhesive

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Last edited by Mr Chips; 09-24-2009 at 04:42 PM.
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