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Old 01-04-2008, 05:29 PM   #1
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


Hello everyone, new member here. My name is Mike, and live in Nj, and work for a building supply company. I am in the process of being the GC for my first custom built home. There have been many ups and downs, but the worst was today, when I failed my framing inspection. The house is a 1 1/2 storycapecod style with an open floorplan, and cathedral ceiling in the great/living room(40ft wide by 28ft deep). To try and give a visual, only the back half, and right side of the house have a second floor. The walls are 2X4 construction, and the rafters are 2X12 with 2X8 collar ties. The front roof is a 12/12 pitch, and the back is a shed dormer with a 12/5 pitch. The reaon the framing failed is this: On the back rafters, the heel of the cut is not resting on the on the wall. It is closer to the center of the cut. I still have 10-12" of soffit, and 10-12" over hanging the inside, so I am guessing a 15-20 degree cut? The building inspector said if my architect wrote a letter saying the roof could support the load, he would pass it. I will not be able to get a hold of him until Monday, so maybe someone here can put me at ease. So I have two questions.

1. Does the fact that the 2X12's are not sitting on the heel of the cut make them that much weaker, or will my architect probably say it's no big deal and write me the letter.

2. If the roof can't support the load, how do I fix it without ripping the whole house apart? ( in jersey the framing inspection comes right before insulation)

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Old 01-04-2008, 05:35 PM   #2
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


The heel is where the weight comes down. Not sure if they will ok it or not. They might, they might not. Did YOU do the framing or did a framing sub contractor do the framing?

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Old 01-04-2008, 05:46 PM   #3
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


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Originally Posted by robertcdf View Post
The heel is where the weight comes down. Not sure if they will ok it or not. They might, they might not. Did YOU do the framing or did a framing sub contractor do the framing?
Thanks for the reply robertcdf.
I did not do the framing, I sub-contracted that out. I understand about the weight being on the heel, that is what worries me. I did the siding and cornice work, and will be doing most of the interior finish work. What really concerns me is whether or not it can be fixed without setting me back a month or two that I don't have!
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Old 01-04-2008, 08:49 PM   #4
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


What's the span of those rafters?
Measure what the effective rafter is. Inside edge of top plate to top edge of rafter - square to rafter.
Are there ceiling joists (what size) that will be attached to the side of the rafter?
Give this info. to the architect/engineer. IMO, this will require a repair - maybe as simple as a ledger board secured to the wall or specific nailing patterns in ceiling joist to rafter, depends on the span.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:02 AM   #5
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


The simplest solution may be to add Simpson H10 hurricane ties. These tie the rafter to the top plate & do provide protection for lateral movement, both sideways & outward, as well as uplift.

See if your architect will approve use of those.

Simpson may offer other versions as well that might be a better fit like the H10S, H10A, H11Z or H14 but I have not used those yet.
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:02 PM   #6
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


So from reading this I think the problem is that the birdsmouth is cut to large? One easy fix is add a 2x2 ledger that helps hold them and cover it with crown moulding later. Then next is to fur the entire wall with 2x2 and add window jam extentions. Hopefully the real answer is just a letter put its hard to say without really seeing the whole home
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:00 PM   #7
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


I'm not positve of the span of the rafters, lets just say about 15ft. The ceiling joists are 2x8, but in the loft area I have a soffit, so they are not tied into any other walls. I also failed for not having hurricane ties, but that's a simple fix. I think the easiest way to picture it is that basically I have the equivalant of a little more that a 2x6 sitting on the top plate, instead of a 2x12. Since I'm not a framer, it's really hard to put into words for you guys. I do appreciate the responses, and hopefully I'll have an answer from the architect tomorrow.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:09 PM   #8
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


I would also go back to your framer... thats just dumb. Someone screwed the pooch and needs to fix it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:07 AM   #9
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


Re: "I also failed for not having hurricane ties, but that's a simple fix. I think the easiest way to picture it is that basically I have the equivalant of a little more that a 2x6 sitting on the top plate, instead of a 2x12. "

Again, check with your architect as the right selection of the hurricane tie may fix your problem. Or you might be able to sister say a 2' to 4' piece of lumber with the correctly cut birdsmouth to your existing rafters.

A little more than a 2X6 is a 2X8. Did the plan call for 2X12s & the framing subcontractor used a 2X6 or 8?

Sounds like you got more problems than just the birdsmouth being cut out too wide. If this is typical throughout the framing I'd consider hiring an independant inspector to examine the framing for other potential problems. I would not expect the local building inspector to inform you of all the possible shortcomings as they typically don't have the time or desire to do that.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:23 AM   #10
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


Lumberjack,

Is this what you're talking about? I left the ceiling joists out.
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Failed framing inspection  Hope I can sleep tonight!!-shed-rafter-seatcut.jpg  
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:20 AM   #11
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


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Originally Posted by NJlumberjack View Post
I'm not positve of the span of the rafters, lets just say about 15ft. The ceiling joists are 2x8, but in the loft area I have a soffit, so they are not tied into any other walls. I also failed for not having hurricane ties, but that's a simple fix. I think the easiest way to picture it is that basically I have the equivalant of a little more that a 2x6 sitting on the top plate, instead of a 2x12. Since I'm not a framer, it's really hard to put into words for you guys. I do appreciate the responses, and hopefully I'll have an answer from the architect tomorrow.

Post what your architect has to say.
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:07 PM   #12
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


Joe Carola has it dead on with his picture. Anyway, my architect said there was not problem, since I basically had a truss situation going on. The span was actually 13', and I had 8" of bearing, which my architect said was more than enough. He said 2x12 were used for insulation purposes, since it is a cathedral ceiling. The solution was to add the hurricane ties as someone already stated, which I needed anyway. It 's a simple fix, and now I can move on.
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:45 PM   #13
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


Glad to hear it all worked out for you. Just remember that with something like that....Everything can be worked out. No need to panic.

Use your head and use the experts (get them involved).

Good luck on the rest of the project.
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:11 PM   #14
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


You should never cut a birdsmouth deeper than the next size down rafter. Ex. A 2x12 rafter should have a nine and a quarter or better deadrise. (from outside of top plate, leveled to top of rafter) You got lucky with that situation. If it happened again you could pack out wall till you got enough bearing.
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:50 PM   #15
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Failed framing inspection Hope I can sleep tonight!!


What Joe depicted in his drawing is never right. I am very surprised your arch allowed it. Is he related to the framer either personally or professionally? I would get a second opinion. That type of cut really weakens the framing member.

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