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Old 12-13-2010, 09:16 PM   #1
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Existing Pad footing


I have a finished basement, floor is floating floor and there is a column for which I need to confirm the pad footing size and depth. Unfortunately this column is not on the original plans of the house but it seems like it was done during the construction of the home (1990).

I want to confirm the size of the pad footing (if any) and my best option for now is to core drill (1 inch dia) approx 20 inches from the center of the column and then inspect what I have drilled out.

Anyone have any comments on my approach, perhaps another suggestion?

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Old 12-14-2010, 07:51 AM   #2
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Existing Pad footing


If it's a supporting column, then I think proper building codes suggest the footing should be about 24" deep, by 24" square something like that.

If you dig a 1" peep hole, get a snake device for seeing inside things or shine in a pencil flashlight, it would have to go at least that deep - but the idea is almost laughable.

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Old 12-14-2010, 09:14 AM   #3
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Existing Pad footing


No the idea is not a 1'' peep hole this is a long core drill bit that will go several feet deep and when I pull it out I will see the cross section of what is under there eg. the first 3'' are cement, the next 12" concrete, then gravel or fill material etc
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:46 AM   #4
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Existing Pad footing


No, no I get you....LOL. Like I said, our building code suggests that a proper weight footing should be a fair chunk of concrete and I don't know if drilling a core sample would make its day.
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Old 12-14-2010, 03:02 PM   #5
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Existing Pad footing


The drilling will tell you how thick the layers are but not how much area........ or shape, circular, square, rectangle or combination.

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Old 12-15-2010, 06:21 AM   #6
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Existing Pad footing


12" of concrete in a basement floor ??????????????? what're you supporting - 50ton drop hammer forges ? ? ? don't the neighbors object to the noise or vibration ? maybe you'll find 4" of concrete, perhaps a vapor barrier, even some clean stone, then dirt/soil,,, if you have a block foundation, see how much of the base course block's exposed & subtract from 8",,, if your pad's thicker than 12", i'd be surprised.

btw, cement is an INGREDIENT of concrete ( cement, fine aggregate, coarse aggregate, & water )
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:49 AM   #7
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Existing Pad footing


I remember a project that involved bolstering up a sagging floor in an 80 year-old house, where the main living areas overhead had dropped by about 3" over time and there needed a series of supporting columns in the basement underneath the main beams in order to slowly lift it back up.

Well, the engineers suggested adjustable metal lolly columns sitting on their own footings made of concrete that had to be there by code. So we dug 3'x3'x3' holes in the basement floor, and put in concrete forms to fill with concrete...and eventually, we got a solid block of concrete. The columns went on top of that and the beams were slowly lifted...

That's what I thought the OP were talking about. You say there's a column - not part of the original plans - for which you have to establish to size of the footing etc. What I am saying is you can't necessarily put a column onto the floating floor you have and expect it to hold the house up.
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:27 AM   #8
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Existing Pad footing


Quote:
Originally Posted by ojee001 View Post
I have a finished basement, floor is floating floor and there is a column for which I need to confirm the pad footing size and depth. Unfortunately this column is not on the original plans of the house but it seems like it was done during the construction of the home (1990).

I want to confirm the size of the pad footing (if any) and my best option for now is to core drill (1 inch dia) approx 20 inches from the center of the column and then inspect what I have drilled out.

Anyone have any comments on my approach, perhaps another suggestion?
Is this just an academic exercise or do you have structural issues around the pole? Or planning an addition?
Ron
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:54 AM   #9
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Existing Pad footing


No not academic here is the situation:

Live in Canada, house is 1990 construction, basement first and second floor, first floor removed load bearing wall and replaced with LVL's beams and 2x6 columns. All was done as per engineered drawings and discussions with the helpfull people at joist hanger manufacturer and the LVL manufacturer. In total there are 3 columns supporting the new arrangement, two of which rest on the foundation wall so no issue there.
The last column sits atop a steel beam in the basment (I added LVL blockage under the column to transfer load onto steel beam). There was already an existing column in the basement approx 2 feet away from the first floor column. This column is a square HSS steel 4", the engineer said it would do the job fine but need a pad footing of 48"x48"x12". I obviously don't know the size of the footing underneath this column so I rented a core drill with a 1" dia diamond. I drilled 17" from the center of the column to discover that there is approx 3" of concrete and then gravel. So there is either no footing there or it's quite small.

So now I have no choice but to carefully remove the floating floor and what is under (plywood, 2x4 and vapor barrier), dig down 12" and make the proper pad

I guess the digging of this pad is like any other concrete form work, no special considerations? Frost line here is about 4.5 feet and my basement floor is 6 feet below ground level....

Thanks for all the input guys...keep em' coming!
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:01 AM   #10
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Existing Pad footing


OK, we're on the same page...that's what I thought you had i.e colums supporting a beam and questions on the size of the footing underneath.

So if you cored out 17" from the column, and found nothing, it may indeed look like there isn't an adequate footing for the column to sit on. I bow to the professional who said a 4' square footing a foot deep...different local situations may dictate what size that footing should be for your load.

But either way, it means making a bit of a mess to keep your floor from sagging and all the doors from getting out of square - to say nothing of the cracks in the walls. On the other hand, who put in the columns, a handyman?
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:19 AM   #11
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Existing Pad footing


Well I can't be 100% sure but I don't think a handy man installed that column...in fact there are 2 columns (in the basement) roughly in the middle span of the metal beam, these two columns are about 2 feet apart. On the original house plans I see one of the two columns (not the one that would be supporting my loads) and the plans call for a 40"x40"x12" footing...since I had the core drill I did the same inspection and found nothing!!!!!! Both columns are HSS (which is not the typical handyman column) and they are welded to the beam which leads me to believe they were installed during the home construction which angers me...why not have a footing to spec???!!!!

Anyways I guess for my purposes pouring the pad footing should be straightforward? Any lessons learned from anyone? I guess since I am already in the basement I am well below the frost line?

thanks guys
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:39 AM   #12
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Existing Pad footing


Here the frost line is 4' from the surface, and we're a bit further north than you are. Plus, you being about 4' below the surface in your basement, I think puts you out of harm from frost where you are. Maybe that's why the pro called only for 12" deep...I thought they'd have to be 2' deep - but again, I don't know your local situation.

Anyone can weld a column in place; a good contracor would, by code before enclosing it, I think plus just for safety reasons.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:49 AM   #13
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Existing Pad footing


ojee, I probably could have saved you the work and told you with 99% certainty that there was not a 48" x 48" by 12" column pad below. A post pad that size is almost unheard of in new residential construction. I wouldn't be surprised at all if what you found is a 24" by 24" pad instead, which will create additional problems with your project. If I were you, I would ask the engineer if you can leave the existing pad in place and add to it, or if he wants one monolithic pad, before you open the floor up. The difference could equal a mass amount of time & labor. Good luck.
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:11 AM   #14
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Existing Pad footing


What to do if I run into a drain pipe? Obviously I do not want to relocate given that the basement is finished
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojee001 View Post
What to do if I run into a drain pipe? Obviously I do not want to relocate given that the basement is finished
If you're not going to relocate it, what choices do you have?
You incase the pipe with concrete.
You need to be absolutely sure this pad does not drop or the pipe will be pitched incorrectly or break.
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