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-   -   Drywall ceiling: Water Damage, looking for advice (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/drywall-ceiling-water-damage-looking-advice-20301/)

dawho1 04-24-2008 11:28 PM

Drywall ceiling: Water Damage, looking for advice
 
Alright...here's the deal. My icemaker in the refridgerator went crazy, just kept spitting out water into the freezer all day while we were at work. When we got home, a lot of water had leaked out of the freezer. Got it all cleaned up and found out that at some point, it went down into the floor. Best guess at the moment is that it went down a hole in the flooring for gas stove. Well, that floor is also my basement ceiling, which means when I finally got around to going downstairs, I had water dripping down from a couple of big bubbles in my ceiling.

I promptly and with no clue as to what I was really doing (or if what I was doing was a really bad idea) started poking and cutting holes in the ceiling assuming that the faster I got the water out of there the better. I of course did not own any proper tools (drywall saw, etc) for cutting it out, so it was pretty much scoring with a utility knife until I could break it or pull it out. That is pretty much the reason for the odd "shapes" of the cuts and the reason that it's not all continuous, etc.

Here are a couple of pictures that may give you a better idea of what I'm dealing with and help with any advice/follow-up questions:

http://www.dawho.com/images/diy/ceiling1.jpg


http://www.dawho.com/images/diy/ceiling2.jpg

Anyways, I have a few basic questions about fixing/patching a drywall ceiling:

1) Are there certain "sizes" I should try to adhere to when patching? For instance: My "hole" is about 8 ft long, and averages 8" wide. Some places are 12", some places are about 16". There is more drywall that needs to be removed (in my opinion, but that's why I'm here.). The cuts aren't straight, etc. So, should I try to patch it a certain way? For instance, am I better off widening the whole thing to 24" or something like that and then putting up a larger "patch"? Any advice here would be great, as I really don't know the best way to approach it.

2) In the 2nd picture, I've tried to focus on what I'm calling a "drooping seam". It seems like the drywall is no longer attached to the joist. It's cracked, and I can move it very easily up and down away from the joist. It's the seam between two pieces, you can see the crack (vaguely) in the 2nd picture. It is cracked/loose until about 6 inches from the wall. What's the best method to approach this? Cut it out and patch it? Reattach each piece and mud and tape with the rest of the patches? Any ideas welcome!

3) I've scraped the existing texture (popcorn) of the ceiling because while I'm screwing around with all of this, the wife thought it would be a great idea to install some CFL recessed lighting and finish the ceiling as a knockdown. I'm assuming that I'm going to want to/have to prime the patches/joints/water spots with something like KILZ, right? And then paint the ceiling when I'm done? I've heard of people NOT painting textured ceilings, is that a viable option? Good option? Or do I play it by ear?

4) There are a couple of areas where the water discolored the drywall. I was planning to cut them out, but don't know if I should or not. Should I be cutting them out and replacing/patching, or is it better to just prime with some type of stainblocking primer?

5) As I said, I got tasked with putting in a new lighting system too, any my inclination is to finish that first (using 6" remodel recessed cans) so that I make sure I've punched any holes I need to (for wiring, etc) and have everything ready to go before I do any "finishing" of the ceiling. My only concern is having the cans installed when I finish the ceiling, but I'm guessing there are plenty of ways to mask them to keep from spraying texture up there. Just looking for confirmation that that makes sense.

So, basically, I'm looking for some tips on methods to patch...should I cut to certain size, do I patch along joists where possible, do I make all cuts to end on joists so I can attach the edges of the new drywall, etc. I'll probably ask for more advice regarding taping and all of the fun that goes with that when I get to that point!

Thanks for any help everyone, I do appreciate the advice and guidance!

-randall

kgphoto 04-25-2008 12:20 AM

Only cut out and replace that which won't lay flat or is otherwise broken. If not, then just patch and prime with stain blocking and paint.

Termite 04-25-2008 12:24 AM

Man that is a bummer!

I'd suggest replacing any sheetrock that the water touched. New rock is inexpensive, so you're better off getting all the rock that got softened up out of there, even if it isn't necessarily showing the signs of water damage.

You'll be buying 4x8 sheets, or 4x9 or 4x10 if necessary. Buy lengths long enough to avoid unnecessary seams. Use the tapered edges instead of cut edges wherever possible.

I'd suggest starting at the corner of the walls. In your top picture it looks like the compromised seam is close to the wall anyway. I'd cut out a big rectangle using a straight edge and replace the whole thing. It is hard to tell the dimensions of what we're looking at, but perhaps another sheet or half sheet would be needed where the water first came down.

If you replace all the way to the intersection of the wall, you'll have an easier time hiding that seam, instead of having two seams out in the middle of the ceiling (by doing 24" strips).

You must break your seams along the floor joists! Both edges need to be secured to the joist, or you can add some blocking between the joists as necessary.

Where your existing rock meets a new sheet, you'll be butting the cut/full thickness edge of the existing rock to the tapered edge of the new rock. I'd suggest using a very sharp utility knife and a drywall rasp to knock down the cut edge of the existing rock. Otherwise it will be harder to hide the seam.

Also...Just nitpicking...
Is that a junction box I see up between the joists above the finished ceiling? That is an electric code no-no! It needs to be accessible. But, if you must, at least be sure you put a box cover on it.

dawho1 04-25-2008 02:16 AM

Thanks for the help guys. Yeah, that's a junction box sitting there, I found it there when I ripped up the ceiling. It had a cover on it, I've just been "tracing" my wiring as best I could since I had access to a bunch of stuff. My center ceiling light fixture box has 18 wires in it. 18. EIGHT. TEEN.

Needless to say, I wasn't expecting that. If it's a code no-no, and since I already have the ceiling open, it certainly seems easy enough to move the box about 2 feet and put it on the other side of that wall which would put it in my garage and accessible. There seems to be plenty of slack there. There is another junction box about 6 feet further into the room up between the joists also. Can't think of any easy way to move that one, but open to ideas.

Termite 04-25-2008 10:20 AM

It is only a code no-no because you or an electrician (or a future owner) may need to access those junction boxes. Move them if you can. If you can't, perhaps mount them in the ceiling. I've also seen people use HVAC grills as access panels. If I were inspecting it, I'd have a hard time not accepting it concealed if there were a permanent and detailed "map" mounted to the outside of the electric panel describing the box, the circuit, and where exactly the box is located (even though the code doesn't allow this).

Sorry to change the subject on you! :)

CowboyAndy 04-25-2008 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite (Post 118944)
It is only a code no-no because you or an electrician (or a future owner) may need to access those junction boxes. Move them if you can. If you can't, perhaps mount them in the ceiling. I've also seen people use HVAC grills as access panels. If I were inspecting it, I'd have a hard time not accepting it concealed if there were a permanent and detailed "map" mounted to the outside of the electric panel describing the box, the circuit, and where exactly the box is located (even though the code doesn't allow this).

Sorry to change the subject on you! :)

That's not exactly the reason. partially.

If a wirenut were to come loose and there was arcing, how would you get to it?

Also, it has no cover on it, so if there was arcing happening, sparks could come in contact with wood and drywall starting a fire.



back on the subject, I would rip out all the drywall within a few feet of where there is visable water damage. Like it was mentioned, its pretty cheap. tear it out and let it dry out good in there, otherwise you could develop mold.

Termite 04-25-2008 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyAndy (Post 118995)
That's not exactly the reason. partially.
If a wirenut were to come loose and there was arcing, how would you get to it?
Also, it has no cover on it, so if there was arcing happening, sparks could come in contact with wood and drywall starting a fire.

Access is the reason for the code requirement. There are a number of reasons that access to the box could be necessitated. I think we're in agreement here.

dawho1 04-27-2008 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawho1 (Post 118916)
It had a cover on it,

Just so we're clear :wink:

There is a cover. I removed it to "test" and trace my circuits/wiring to find out what goes where, etc. Whatever I decide to do, that cover is gonna be back on there. The HVAC vent/grate is a good idea for anything I can't move, assuming it's allowed by code, I'll have to check on that before I decide what to do.

Termite 04-28-2008 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawho1 (Post 119526)
Just so we're clear :wink:

There is a cover. I removed it to "test" and trace my circuits/wiring to find out what goes where, etc. Whatever I decide to do, that cover is gonna be back on there. The HVAC vent/grate is a good idea for anything I can't move, assuming it's allowed by code, I'll have to check on that before I decide what to do.

The code simply requires access to a junction box. Your inspector would be unreasonable to not allow a removable cover or access panel that provides access to the j-box, as long as it didn't require destructive measures to get past it. Always a good idea to check with the inspector first, if in fact this job involves a building permit..."Access" is subject to interpretation.

Once again, sorry to change the topic on you. Not trying to complicate things, just trying to help out. Hopefully all your sheetrock-related questions got answered to your satisfaction!

Sir MixAlot 04-28-2008 11:20 AM

If you end up not replacing the whole ceiling, I would replace any tape @ the joints that was even close to the water intrusion. Because down the road they could end up loosing their adhesion. Easier to do it now than later.
Good Luck!:thumbsup:

bjbatlanta 07-22-2008 05:41 PM

By the time you add your cans, you might be better off replacing the whole ceiling........ Remember you have to run a wire from one can to the next. That necessitates drilling holes in the floor joists, so you have to cut holes in the drywall to do so and feed the wire.You can install a layer over the top of what's there rather than demo the whole thing. Cut out any sagging/questionable pieces. Add a strip of rock on any framing members that are devoid of sheetrock from your demo, and hang another layer. If you don't replace, like Sir Mixalot said, peel that tape back a good distance!

kgphoto 09-13-2010 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite (Post 119557)
The code simply requires access to a junction box. Your inspector would be unreasonable to not allow a removable cover or access panel that provides access to the j-box, as long as it didn't require destructive measures to get past it. Always a good idea to check with the inspector first, if in fact this job involves a building permit..."Access" is subject to interpretation.

Once again, sorry to change the topic on you. Not trying to complicate things, just trying to help out. Hopefully all your sheetrock-related questions got answered to your satisfaction!

Just remember access needs to allow enough room to be able to actually work on it, so a tiny A/C grate wouldn't cut it. Bringing it to the garage wall or down to the surface of this ceiling and putting a dress blank cover on it, are the only code approved methods so far discussed here.


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