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-   -   Drylock, Typar and Vapour barrier? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/drylock-typar-vapour-barrier-56624/)

fubar79 11-05-2009 02:21 PM

Drylock, Typar and Vapour barrier?
 
Hi all,

I live just north of Toronto, in Ontario Canada. I'm looking at finishing the basement in my three year old home. It is an Energy Star Home with R12 fibreglass insulation in the basement, to the floor. Studded. Bare concrete behind the insulation, with 1" gap. No problems with moisture at this point.

From what I've read here, I don't like the fibreglass insulation. It is coming out. I realize sprayed foam or rigid is the way to go, but I'm not going to pay $20 for a 2 foot wide board. So my alternative will be Roxul. From what I've read it won't support mold.

I planned on putting typar on the concrete wall, insulate with Roxul in the existing 2x4 framing ( 1 inch away from wall), then 6mm vapour barrier, then finsh with drywall.

My main question is this:

-Should I/can I use a product such as Drylock first on the concrete, then typar? Is drylock considered a vapor barrier, thus creating a problem with the 6mm vapour barrier?


In regards to the typar: I know how to fasten in at the top, but then does it just hang to the floor? Other then the staples at the top sill, should I secure it at the bottom or wall at all?


Cheers!

Ryan

fubar79 11-05-2009 04:38 PM

I typed "drylock basement" into Google and found this:

"

Here's the pros and cons of Drylock and when to use it and when not to use it.
First off, a helpful overview of what makes basements different.
Foundation walls are underground (below grade). Due to this they are prone to moisture. Water that is in the earth, under the surface is constantly on the move. When it reaches your foundation wall is forces its way through due to hydrostatic pressure. The moisture that passes through is in the form of water vapor.
The average home in the northeast part of the country experiences an average of 15-18 gallons of water vapor per day. Ask anyone with a home that uses a dehumidifier and they'll agree with that statistic. Emptying it everyday.
The confusion is that some misinformed homeowners will attempt to drylock their entire basement. This poses problems because concrete is supposed to breathe. Concrete is porous by nature, so water vapor passing through is completely natural.
Now mind you, water vapor and water leaks are not the same thing. Water vapor is the moistness you will feel if you do not run your dehumidier regularly.
As that moisture enters your home your dehumidifier will pick it up. That's one of the great benefits of the Owens Corning Basement Finishsing System, is that the walls "breathe" and allow the moisture to pass through. Normal sheetrock would trap the moisture and poses mold, mildew, and other serious health concerns that need to be addresses for anyone finishing a basement.
Now what Drylock IS really good for is repairing cracks in the wall, often due to settling. Or any part of the foundation wall with excessively high moisture.
Just put a few coats of drylock over the cracks and it will serve as a really good "bandaid." It's not a perfect solution, but will serve you well. Another thing to know about Drylock is that it has a shelf life of 2 years on your walls. So in 2 years, while the thick paint coating will still be there, the chemical components that make it effective will have worn off. "


I don't think I will be using any sealer on the inside, and just stick with the typar, roxul, and vapour barrier.

ccarlisle 11-06-2009 09:18 AM

You know, I am uncomfortable with the idea of using Typar on the inside of your basement walls, I am not sure about the DryLok - and all because in a 3-year old Energy Star house, these systems don't meld with the existing - and I have no idea what that system is in your particular case.

First, the easy stuff; putting up a Typar air barrier on the inside is pointless - that's why we have vapour barriers up here and vb go on the warm side. Typar air barrier is for the outside and I expect you already have one there, so putting another on the inside essentially sandwiching the concrete doesn't make sense IMO...

The Drylok is a sort of damp-proofer, a product that plugs a leak so to speak. It is an option on some assemblies - maybe not yours - but ties in with how the concrete dries: either from the inside or from the outside. Up here, the concrete normally dries to the inside in basements so putting up a damp-proofer where none is needed may be creating more problems than it solves. Drylok can withstand a certain height of water pressure and where that is good if you have water pressure it may at best be a waste of money if you don't...

Third and the most relevant is the nature of the construction of your wall assembly on the outside of your walls. What is it? brick? is there rigid foam on the outside anywhere? siding? because all those elements will tie in with the insulation of your basement wall....is the basement wall insulated on the outside? is it damproofed only? just too many questions for anyone to say whether DryLok or Typar is called for.

My house was built in 1960 and we've been here 25 years and it's time to upgrade the basement insulation. $25 a 2'x8' sheet of 2" rigid foam is pricey for me too but I may have to bite the bullet or spray foam it...

fubar79 11-06-2009 09:43 AM

Now this is just my opinion based on what I've been reading over the last few weeks, but I thought the point of the Typar on the inside was incase the conrete actually leaks ( not just vapour) donw the road. This would hopefully channel the water away from insulation and drywall. I don't mind spending the extra $150 bucks to put it up, as long as its not going to make additional problems. ( like two VB's)

I'm going to stay away from the Drylock all together.

The outside wall it Brick venear. I'm 90% sure they did not use rigid foam, and no the basement wall is not insulated on the outside.


Thank-you for your reply ccarlisle. I'm new to this game, so just trying to gather as much info as possible!

ccarlisle 11-06-2009 10:57 AM

You may have been reading too many things about fibreglass insulation getting wet and the alleged dangers that it creates; well they miss the point and blame the insulation for a water infiltration problem leading to mould. All of that nonsense doesn't apply to your and my climate up here.

I hope that you never get to the point where you have to channel water inlets into your basement...certainly not in a 3-yr old house! The first thing you can do to make sure that doesn't even happen is to put the $ and energy into channelling the rain water and icemelt away from your house by making sure the gutters and downspouts are correctly functioning. The if you have a sump pump make sure it is working too. Unless you live on an underground stream, there will be no physical water coming in...water vapour is another story.

Check out Mike Holmes on all this; he'll tell you spray foam in the basement is the best (no vb), but it expensive. Next are the 2' xps rigid panels glued to the concrete wall, and a stud wall with vb...

fubar79 11-06-2009 12:35 PM

New Problem/Delema. new thread started. Thanks for the help ccarlisle.


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