Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-17-2013, 04:30 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Seattle
Posts: 514
Share |
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


I am demoing the old finished areas of my basement to studs, doing a seismic retrofit, and then refinishing the rooms. I have found a couple of areas of concern. First, as the pictures show, the double top plate is serving as the header for the 4' long window, and to make matters worse, there is a joint in the lower top plate (above first pane on the left) and the area is sagging about a 1/2". I have no idea why they built it like that. The house is 90 years old and the sag is not noticeable upstairs. I was thinking of jacking it back to level and installing a long piece of 3 1/2" angle iron under the top plate from stud to stud on either side of the window. What is the best way to correct this situation? Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.-window.jpg  

Last edited by Windows; 12-17-2013 at 04:34 PM.
Windows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 05:02 PM   #2
Member
 
cortell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 708
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


I can think of two ways to properly address your situation: remove the window altogether and install full length studs, or replace the window with a smaller one and install a header. An angle iron is not going to fix the problem. It may reduce the deflection a bit, but that will continue to be a dangerous area. A steel beam will give you the most clearance for a new window, but of course that will require some engineering and sourcing (not like you can pick one up at Home Depot). Second best is engineered lumber: PSL or LVL. The latter you may be able to size yourself: http://parr.com/PDFs/LP%20LVL%201.9E.pdf

Last edited by cortell; 12-18-2013 at 07:52 AM.
cortell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 06:23 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 671
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


I don't see how it's that dangerous, it made it thru 48, 64 and '01.
Anti-wingnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 06:31 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,876
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


I have added a built-up header using the rim joist as the outside piece. Support the joists, cut back the drywall to work, measure/cut the joists back for two more joists sandwiched to the rim- nailing each at install, add the hangers and some lag bolts and construction adhesive to make a single header. Plates would be filler. You really need an egress sized window or door for the new space to meet minimum fire-safety code and liability with your HO Insurance. Give yourself an 1/8" play from header/joist clearance. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...33otStRi7Aff7g

Check local AHJ; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_par024.htm

Gary
__________________
Clothes taking longer to dry?
Clean the dryer screen in HOT water if using fabric softener sheets.
They leave a residue that impedes air-flow, costing you money.
Clean the ducting in the last six months? 17,000 dryer fires annually!

Last edited by Gary in WA; 12-17-2013 at 06:33 PM.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gary in WA For This Useful Post:
Windows (12-17-2013)
Old 12-17-2013, 06:34 PM   #5
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,641
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


Anti -

That is a poor excuse. Just because it has lasted a few years does not mean it is safe. What if the floors above were ever loaded to code loads now what would happen? If it already showing movement, it is not right.

Judging by the photo there are already some questions on the continuity and connections if it is a bearing wall

Maybe someone could say the owners were just lucky.
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 12:00 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Seattle
Posts: 514
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


Thanks for the input everybody. Having an old house means finding creative solutions sometimes, as much as that pains me to say it. Might have a closer look at Gary's solution.
Windows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 07:26 AM   #7
AHH, SPANS!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 1,558
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


isn't it headered at the rim joist running over the double plates, doubled up rim joist possibly over the window. no need for a header in that case...
hand drive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 07:45 AM   #8
Member
 
cortell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 708
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hand drive View Post
isn't it headered at the rim joist running over the double plates, doubled up rim joist possibly over the window. no need for a header in that case...
Sorry for jumping in on this question. Just my observation...

If you look closely, those are 2x4 walls, and you can see the joists resting on the top plates (with more than 1/2" bearing). That can only mean there's a single rim joist.
cortell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 07:50 AM   #9
Member
 
cortell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 708
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in WA View Post
Support the joists, cut back the drywall to work, measure/cut the joists back for two more joists sandwiched to the rim- nailing each at install, add the hangers and some lag bolts and construction adhesive to make a single header.
Brilliant idea! That's for sure the ticket.
cortell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 09:58 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 671
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
Anti -

That is a poor excuse. Just because it has lasted a few years does not mean it is safe. What if the floors above were ever loaded to code loads now what would happen? If it already showing movement, it is not right.

Judging by the photo there are already some questions on the continuity and connections if it is a bearing wall

Maybe someone could say the owners were just lucky.
You're assuming that the wall above is load bearing, which we don't know.
Anti-wingnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 10:01 AM   #11
Member
 
cortell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 708
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
You're assuming that the wall above is load bearing, which we don't know.
The picture shows joists bearing on the wall. That makes it a load bearing wall.
cortell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 10:08 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 671
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


Your right, I need better eyes, monitor, glasses and a photo to look at.

I do know what a load bearing wall is.
Anti-wingnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 11:40 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 726
Default

Double top plate joint is unsupported, sagging.


If you remove the long window, put a support in the center, and then put a narrower window on either side of the center support, that will go a long way towards stiffening up the double top plate.
SPS-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rotted sole plate in bathroom firemanter Carpentry 3 05-30-2013 02:14 PM
Looking for a step by step for framing basement walls/2x4's wrong direction/stairs??? xray328 Remodeling 27 06-19-2011 08:50 PM
Reinforcing notched double top plate pmoe Building & Construction 28 01-24-2009 10:16 PM
Rotted sole plate in bathroom firemanter Building & Construction 3 11-11-2008 10:06 PM
OK to drill holes in top plate to run conduit? troll5501 Carpentry 4 05-11-2008 08:33 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.