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-   -   Double sole plate how-to? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/double-sole-plate-how-67405/)

HooKooDooKu 03-23-2010 12:24 AM

Double sole plate how-to?
 
In my basement, there is 8'5-1/2" from concrete to the bottom of the floor joists. That means you need 8'1" stud between double top plates and a single sole plate.

Well, I just got a sale price on a bunch of 2x4x8', so I'm just going to double the sole plate and cut a 1/2" from the studs to frame some basement walls.

The bottom most sole plate obviously must be pressure treated, and I'm using those bullet-fired nails to attach the sole plate to the concreate.

But here's the interesting part... how to attach the 2nd sole plate on top of the 1st. The problem is that with those bullet-fired nails, the nails don't always get driven flush with the wood. More typical is a 1/4" protrusion, and you don't just finish hammering those things flush.

Suggestions on how to best attatch a 2nd sole plate?

kwikfishron 03-23-2010 05:18 AM

Just nail them at a slight angle or get shorter nails.

oh'mike 03-23-2010 05:47 AM

Pine construction lumber is soft--when the second plate is laid on top of the nails--HIT IT WITH A HAMMER

The heads of the protruding nails will embed themselves.

DangerMouse 03-23-2010 06:00 AM

good call oh'mike, but he'd likely need a BIG hammer....
but....as long as the nails have penetrated the concrete, wouldn't it be ok to hammer/staple/bend them over?
then add second 2x and nail that to first?

DM

HooKooDooKu 03-23-2010 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron (Post 418451)
Just nail them at a slight angle or get shorter nails.

First of all, we're talking about a tool that "shoots" a nail, and you "pull the trigger" by striking the tool with a hammer. This is NOT something you want to be doing at an angle.

Plus the nail length is correct. The instructions call for the use of a nail that is 1" longer than the thickness of the wood you are attempting to attach to concrete. So for dimensional 2x4, you need 2-1/2" nails.

And it's not an issue of every single nail sticks up. So of them will go so far as to embed themselves by as much as about 1/4", while others will protrude by about 1/4". It's most likely a question of how hard the concrete is in the exact spot the nail is going (I've drilled concrete with a masonry bit... as long as you're only in the cement, it's pretty soft... but the moment you hit a piece of gravel... it suddenly gets really hard).



Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse (Post 418463)
....as long as the nails have penetrated the concrete, wouldn't it be ok to hammer/staple/bend them over?...

Like I said, based on what I've experienced so far, the protrusion is only about 1/4" (or less). There's not enough nail left to bend.

But I do have a 3# sledge hammer. So depending upon the density of the wood, mike's idea might work really well. FWIW, I plan on following the suggestion of the inspector that I use pressure treated wood for both layers (not a code requirement, but a suggestion). Some of the pressure treated wood I've got seems pretty dense (tight grain).



I guess if nothing else, the best idea might be to start with mike's idea... if I can't get the 2nd plate to sit all the way down on the 1st, I WILL at least have indentations where the nails are protruding... I'll just pick the board back up and drill a partial hole where the indentations are.


Thanks for the ideas!

DangerMouse 03-23-2010 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu (Post 418531)
I guess if nothing else, the best idea might be to start with mike's idea... if I can't get the 2nd plate to sit all the way down on the 1st, I WILL at least have indentations where the nails are protruding... I'll just pick the board back up and drill a partial hole where the indentations are.

Now THAT sounds like a good plan, much easier than trying to sledge the thing over the nail heads too.

DM

DangerMouse 03-23-2010 08:32 AM

"FWIW, I plan on following the suggestion of the inspector that I use pressure treated wood for both layers (not a code requirement, but a suggestion). Some of the pressure treated wood I've got seems pretty dense (tight grain)."

also a good suggestion/plan.

DM

Clutchcargo 03-23-2010 08:32 AM

I don't think these nails bend. My experience to remove them was break them off by hitting them with a hammer... they snap right off. Is drilling and tapcons out of the question ?

Scuba_Dave 03-23-2010 08:35 AM

I've used a sledge to put a 2nd plate on...to imprint the bolts/nuts that are used to hold down the 1st plate
I then drilled a hole so the nuts/etc would fit into the 2nd plate

With a nail it should just embed into the top plate once its nailed down with a sledge
Just mark on the side of the 1st plate where the nails are located in the 1st plate

jlhaslip 03-23-2010 10:49 AM

what Dave said...

HooKooDooKu 03-23-2010 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutchcargo (Post 418542)
I don't think these nails bend. My experience to remove them was break them off by hitting them with a hammer... they snap right off. Is drilling and tapcons out of the question ?

Nothing is out of the question... I'm just looking for the reasonably quickest/easiest way to reliably get this done. Too many thinks have already eaten WAY too many hours of my time.

Initially, I was thinking of things like predrilling holes in the 2nd sole plate and trying to make sure the nails are placed in the spot the holes above will be. But I knew that was going to be difficult and a time killer and knew there had to be something better (so I knew you guys would be able to come up with something better).

I basically got my ah-ha moment to do things the other way around when mike suggested hammering the 2nd plate over the 1st. Once I've got a mark on the 2nd plate where the nails are on the 1st, it will be simple to pick it back up, flip it over, and use a spade bit to drill a hole the depth of the nail protruding, put it back, and nail the two together. Plus, this way I don't have to drill any holes for the nails that do penetrate fully.

kwikfishron 03-23-2010 06:04 PM

First of all it’s a sill plate. You successfully slapped your treated plate to the slab. Now you want to fir the plate up 1 ” so your on sale sticks will work, "great". Now the technical issue, your 16D nails are 3 ” and the 2 plates are only 3” thick and when you nail straight down the nails hit the concrete. If I’m incorrect with this picture please let me know.If this is correct scroll back up to my first answer and read again.

Am I the only Framer out here?

Scuba_Dave 03-23-2010 06:17 PM

They do make 3" nails...and since its not load bearing....

oh'mike 03-23-2010 06:55 PM

Kwickfish---You are talking about sinkers--I think that went over a few heads---most were thinking about the .22 studs.:laughing:

Some times things get a bit confused!:eek:--Mike--

kwikfishron 03-23-2010 07:09 PM

Sorry, I missed a note, what is he trying to do, Ramset a 3” nail through a 1 of wood into a 50 year old slab? That works great if the slab is green. They have hotter charges and shorter nails.


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