Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
Share |
Default

Dormer remodel


Hi all,
New to the forum because I've ran into a problem I can't answer on my own, and I'm hoping you wonderful people can help me out.

First off I have a 1920's bungalow with a finished 1/2 story master bedroom with bath.
My wife needs more closet space and we have a dormer that has been up to this point unused wasted space.
Picture of area(sorry for the plastic covering)


So the plan was to remove the small walls that enclosed the area and create a new wall about 7" farther out that would run flush with the existing hallway wall, thus creating a bathroom/closet area.

So started tearing drywall off and ran into a structural conundrum.
(North side)


(North side from below)


(South side)


(Small south dormer wall)


(doorway header)


As you can see most, if not all of the supporting structure is 2x4, the dormer itself is about 8 ft long and the window wall is actually on an exterior wall (covered porch continues to the very front of the house) I was expecting to see a doubled up rafter on each side but as you can see there is an old rafter set back about a 2x4 width, and a newer board on the outer edge(not connected to the original rafter and really not connected anywhere else on the top side besides the roof underlayment), the short walls that I want to remove also are newer wood and were added after the outer wall drywall. It looks to have a 2x4 double header above the entry way but as you can see from the first picture I haven't opened up the angled portion above it yet to have a look on how that is connected to the rest of the roof.

After looking at things a bit closer I also noticed that the short wall studs do not line up with the floor joists, the south wall runs opposite of the joists but the two outer most studs on that wall are actually sitting midway between floor joists. The north short wall runs parallel with the joists and also sits between them.

So my questions are, based on the pictures I have so far did they add these short walls to be extra support? And the bigger question can I safely remove themwithout harming the overall integrity of the roof?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to look!

jgrundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:55 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 285
Default

Dormer remodel


no one can answer the question over the internet...you need a competent framer or engineer/architect to look at it.

that being said, that dormer pitch looks to be about 30 degrees, and it seems to be an enormous load for single (or even double) 2x4 rafters to support without the mid span support/supporting side wall. whats worse is that the dormer is framed on the 2x4 rafters.......i think you will have some trouble removing that wall....

have someone design up new rafters for you so you can safely remove the support walls, should be a very simple process, but it does look like you have some issues if you start removing things

your bx cable is also corroded, that may need to be addressed.

jcrack_corn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:13 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Dormer remodel


We really can't be looking at that much load from that small of dormer, it's roughly 5 1/2, 6 feet across at the side walls and roughly 8 ft long with the window wall being supported by the exterior wall.

But yes, I was kind of thinking the same thing about the 2x4 construction, everything on the 1/2 story seems to be constructed that way, and I'm kinda mad that our roof was JUST redone last year and the roofer didn't even look into the supporting structure as that would have been a perfect time to sister on some bigger rafters.
jgrundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:31 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 285
Default

Dormer remodel


just making some assumptions (No2 SPF, 16o.c., no snow load) the 2x4's are over spanned as regular rafters, much less supporting a dormer.

(i dont know what your span is, but it sounds like at least 8 feet given the dormer is 6x8).

I'm guessing thats why there is so much supporting structure under them, lets let more experienced people chime in.

------------------------------------------------
http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp
The Maximum Horizontal Span is:
7 ft. 11 in.
with a minimum bearing length of 0.31 in.
required at each end of the member.
PropertyValueSpeciesSpruce-Pine-Fir (South)GradeNo. 2Size2x4Modulus of Elasticity (E)1100000 psiBending Strength (Fb)1671.09 psiBearing Strength (Fcp)335 psiShear Strength (Fv)168.75 psi
jcrack_corn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 04:00 PM   #5
Framing Contractor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Caldwell, NJ
Posts: 1,758
Default

Dormer remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by jgrundy View Post
We really can't be looking at that much load from that small of dormer,
Says who, you? You have no idea. This is why no one here can answer this for you. You need an architect or engineer look at it.

Quote:
and I'm kinda mad that our roof was JUST redone last year and the roofer didn't even look into the supporting structure as that would have been a perfect time to sister on some bigger rafters.
You have no right to be mad at your roofer for that and blame him for not fixing something or making you aware of something that has nothing to do with him. It's not a roofers job to check out the framing. Roofers do roofing, not framing. Completely different trade.
__________________
Joe Carola
Joe Carola is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Joe Carola For This Useful Post:
woodworkbykirk (04-05-2012)
Old 04-05-2012, 04:32 PM   #6
Lic. Builder/GC/Remodeler
 
AtlanticWBConst.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 7,556
Default

Dormer remodel


Just seconding Joes point:

Its NOT the roofers job to determine structural conditions or evaluate structural framing. Most are not even qualified to do that (no experience with that part of construction).
AtlanticWBConst. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 08:54 PM   #7
journeyman carpenter
 
woodworkbykirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: nova scotia canada
Posts: 2,670
Default

Dormer remodel


exactly! a roofers job is to make the roof watertight thats it.. they can inform you that the roof sheathing is getting spongy from rot.. if their a more experienced crew they will sometimes resheath the roof themself but more often than not they need an actual carpenter to do it for them

as for the structure.. thats some scary framing going on with that dormer
woodworkbykirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 09:24 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Dormer remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
Says who, you? You have no idea. This is why no one here can answer this for you. You need an architect or engineer look at it.
You're right, I don't have any idea I'm just making an assumption based on the little knowledge I do have on general construction. I will be having an architect over to assess the situation so we can move forward with what ever needs to be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
You have no right to be mad at your roofer for that and blame him for not fixing something or making you aware of something that has nothing to do with him. It's not a roofers job to check out the framing. Roofers do roofing, not framing. Completely different trade.
I admit I should have phrased that differently, I'm more mad at myself for not thinking to have that done before they re-sheated over the original underlayment because of the gaps between the old boards, and he did fix a rotted area where there had been an ice dam issue so he did get a look at the framing, but yes... why should he care about the framing, he's a roofer.

I'm not looking to point fingers at anyone here obviously, I posted on the forum to get advice and to see if anyone had ever run into framing like this before. Kinda regretting this whole adding a closet for the wife, always ends up being more work than we bargained for
jgrundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 09:35 PM   #9
Member
 
cortell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 708
Default

Dormer remodel


Back on topic...I definitely would NOT touch that framing. With the undersized header and the short wall studs not resting on anything but plywood, you should consider yourself lucky that part of of the roof is staying put (btw, were there cracks in the drywall?). How much vertical clearance do you have there. The only solution I see to removing those short walls and leaving any sort of reasonable clearance is some not-for-the-faint-of-heart reframing that would replace that undersized header with an LVL, flitch beam or even an I-beam . For sure, you need a licensed engineer to make the call. Good luck and keep up posted, please.
cortell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 09:52 PM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Dormer remodel


Cortell, no drywall cracks or cracks in the ceiling of the bedroom below. Vertical clearance with drywall in place was 6'1". So it's pretty tight for me being 6', perfect for my 5'4" wife
We planned on custom fitting some closet system pieces into the taller parts of the under hanging angles. The short wall on the bottom right of the first picture is moving 7" father right and becoming a bigger wall to join with the existing hallway wall that's off frame on the left if that helps in any way.
jgrundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 05:28 PM   #11
Member
 
cortell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 708
Default

Dormer remodel


Yeah...sorry. I'm not picturing what you mean about moving the wall 7" further out. Without a diagram and a complete view of the area, I'm just not sure what you're shooting for. What I do know is that you were hoping to remove/move some of those studs, and hopefully you've gotten some good advice here on that idea. Again, best of luck.

cortell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why Leaking Roof under Dormer / hole in OSB!!! MB1 Roofing/Siding 32 12-15-2011 04:20 PM
Full house dormer I need a dormer Building & Construction 3 05-14-2011 09:49 PM
Dormer Help Gkalka Building & Construction 2 03-31-2008 09:21 AM
roofing a dormer steve1234 Roofing/Siding 21 10-08-2007 03:02 PM
Gambrel Truss Dormer and Ladder Framing? fauer Carpentry 3 09-30-2007 07:36 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.