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Old 10-28-2010, 09:04 PM   #16
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


Did you happen to see the picture I posted up top Gary? From what I gather you seem to prefer that type of insulation. The studs up against the foam board, but you mention 2" foam board rather than 3/4". Also the batt insulation unfaced/no vapor barriers.

Thanks again for all the input and help.

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Old 10-29-2010, 08:55 AM   #17
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


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Mike, do you leave the space between the blocks and studs because you don't use the rigid foam insulation?
Yes.
Keep in mind different areas of the country require different methods due to the different climates. In our area the biggest thing is to make sure the basement is dry before you start. If you have any moisture problems, they must be taken care of before you start on finishing off the area.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:11 AM   #18
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


If you decide to use the construction adhesive beware that it can catch fire if a spark is made while shooting the plates down, the reason I know, it happened to me on one of my jobs.
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:57 PM   #19
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


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I recently learned that you should use construction adhesive on the base plate, not a ramset or tapcons. The mechanical fastener penetrates the concrete and could cause an entry point for moisture. I thought that was quite interesting.
Just a thought.
I read this recently but it doesn't make much sense to me

First, if we forget the fact that in some basements there is a perimeter interior trench through which vastly more moisture could get through than a tiny gap in a hole, and second if we forget that under any newish basement slab you're going to have a sheet of 6 mil poly (or thicker), and thus if you don't drill/nail deeper than the cement you have not broken that barrier, how much moisture do you think is going to come up through a nail or screw hole? Concrete is quite porous anyway. And it often cracks, I cannot envision a hole of this size making a difference either way. If you wanted you could use screws and put some silicone in there first but I think it's of no use at all.

I am using tapcons, btw, in my basement. I hate concrete cracking. It makes me want to medicate, and I think with tapcons its chances are lessened. Anyway, they are much quieter and easier to back out if necessary. You'll need a hammer drill, though ($60).

I used a PT bottom plate. Many people don't use one but DO use a foam sill gasket. Either should be ok, but to be honest I used both. A sill gasket of foam (home depot or lowes) is very cheap, less than $10 for 50 feet of 5.5" (get that so that you can trim some away, makes placing the walls easier if pre-built on ground) and cuts moisture/thermal where the bottom plate touches concrete. I stuck with PT so that any that does get through at least has to fight the PT, even though the rest of the studs are just regular grade.
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It is my understanding that mold cannot grow on fiberglass insulation, though it can feed on the paper backing. However I planned on using unfaced insulation...
Maybe, maybe not: http://www.inspectapedia.com/sickhou...neFoamMold.htm
http://www.inspectapedia.com/sickhou...rglassMold.htm

Damn, GBR beat me to the mold posts (I post these messages as I read a thread in parallel)

My basement I insulated with 2" thick XPS obsessively sealed. I doubt I'll put fiberglass batts in front because R10 is not bad for a basement, even though a couple of the walls are above ground. I'm ok with a few bucks lost there in insulation vs the hassle of batts and possibility (hard to quantify) of the dew point coming too far into the wall if my "vapor barrier" of the foam is that far into the insulative layer.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:42 PM   #20
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


I also frame the walls on the floor l,like Mike and Ole Jim---One tip--in a basement you can not always stand up a wall like you can in new construction---often you will be stopped by something hanging down from the ceiling---

So--I build the walls so that the top of the new wall is near the foundation wall--then the new wall is dragged up--as opposed to stood up---that is worded very badly--but I think you undestand--Mike--
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:55 PM   #21
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


lol... In that thread link I posted for the p.t. wood absorbing moisture, it's not: use pt OR sill sealer, use sill sealer with any wood on concrete, or against it, as a wall. The new IRC accepts non-pt on a wall if separated by an approved v.b.

In a colder climate, 2" f.b. is suggested. This thickness compensates for the colder earth/concrete wall outside, keeping the inside face of the f.b. warm so the basement air will not condense there. Page #9: http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings...s/db/35017.pdf

Basement air.......... That is the problem when it contacts the colder concrete wall = NO air gap. Critical step to air seal the f.b. tight against the concrete, and on top. With an air gap and a convective loop, the moisture from the basement will be deposited on the floor joists above the wall to mold and rot.

http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/743

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/desi...retrofits.aspx

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n8582994/

Gary
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:25 PM   #22
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


This is in bold in GBR's first link and should be .

I myself bought the large size caulk gun and literally glue by the case for my basement.

if you are going to glue insulating panels to the wall, you do not dab the glue on the wall but apply it in a closed grid pattern that will prevent the formation of a circulating air space -- even one as thin as the glue.




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Old 10-29-2010, 10:51 PM   #23
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


Good point! While I was researching in my library for a different answer, I found this- further on foam thickness:
.” Interior insulation strategies for basement walls will vary depending upon the amount of water moving through the foundation walls and the degree to which interior moisture will be controlled.

An analysis of various strategies for internally insulating basement walls was performed at the University of Waterloo
(Jeong, 2001). Walls with a combination of extruded polystyrene and cavity batt insulation, with and without a vapor barrier, covered by gypsum board were compared with walls having only a thicker layer of extruded polystyrene and an empty frame wall covered with gypsum board. The walls with an interior vapor barrier did not get wet from the interior during the winter but they did trap moisture during the summer when moisture is moving inward. Without the vapor barrier, the fiberglass batts would remain dry if interior humidity is not excessive during the summer. Such low interior levels of relative humidity during summer conditions typically can only be achieved with active dehumidification provided by air conditioning or a dehumidifier. Walls with 3.5 inches of extruded polystyrene (XPS) and no
vapor barrier performed the best in this analysis. However, walls with 0.75 inches of extruded polystyrene and 3.5 inches of fiberglass batt insulation in the cavity would perform well as long as interior humidity was controlled below 50 percent during the summer. Increasing the extruded polystyrene to 1.0 or 1.5 inches would improve performance even with higher interior relative humidity during the summer months. This part of the analysis assumed that the concrete wall had a relative humidity of 100 percent at the exterior temperature. Since these studies were for a climate location similar to Minnesota, the thickness of rigid insulation (R-value) could be proportionately reduced in milder climates.” Page #10:
http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...lation-systems


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Last edited by Gary in WA; 10-30-2010 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Corrected the link
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:39 PM   #24
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


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A sill gasket of foam (home depot or lowes) is very cheap, less than $10 for 50 feet of 5.5" (get that so that you can trim some away,
Staple the sill gasket to the bottom plate and it installs itself when you stand the wall.

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