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Old 10-27-2010, 11:15 PM   #1
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


I am framing the walls for drywall in my basement. I am using a pressure treated base plate, regular 2x4 studs, leaving an inch space from the exterior blocks. Using R13 to insulate. I planned on using the Hammershot Ramset to attach the base plate to the cement. Ramset makes "Ramguard" drive pins for use with pressure treated lumber. They come in either 2-1/2" or 3", with a washer or not. Just trying to determine which is the best one to use? Perhaps use liquid nails also? Thank you for reading and any input.

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Old 10-28-2010, 12:03 AM   #2
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


While doing more research online I came across this information, http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-Pr...-By-Step#step2

They suggest 3/4" rigid inslation, then your 2x4 wall right up against it (no space), then unfaced insulation. Just seeing in anybody had any opinions on this method.

Thanks again for reading and any input.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:50 AM   #3
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


I am at exactly that stage, north of you across the lake. I plan to use R10 foil faced insul at the top half, permeable foam likely type 3 below that to allow breathing of the bottom half, then an air gap, then R13 ROXUL rock wool and a foam sill plate seal under the bottom plate on the floor. I discovered this method at buildingscience.com. It seems to address the issue of a breathable wall so as not to trap humidity. Our climates are very close given proximity...There is much discussion of vapor barrier and air barrier, you need to inform yourself and check your local codes. You did not mention an air barrier behind the insul. In my case the foam will provide that as well as a thermal break.
I have a ramset cobra gun. Depending on the age of the concrete there are green, yellow or red charges, older concrete = harder so a heavier charge in my 35 year old basement. See if there is a fastener/charge specifically for pressure treated that is more chemical resistant. The washer is used more so if there is a load pulling down on a horizontal or overhead strapping from what I have read. Also the ramset guy was at my house yesterday dropping off parts. His advice is material thickness plus .75 to inch into concrete will hold the base plate fine. One difference, I am using steel studs and track.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:35 AM   #4
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


I recently learned that you should use construction adhesive on the base plate, not a ramset or tapcons. The mechanical fastener penetrates the concrete and could cause an entry point for moisture. I thought that was quite interesting.
Just a thought.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:50 AM   #5
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


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Originally Posted by TJ_in_IL View Post
I recently learned that you should use construction adhesive on the base plate, not a ramset or tapcons. The mechanical fastener penetrates the concrete and could cause an entry point for moisture. I thought that was quite interesting.
Just a thought.
Guess it depends how far you go, but yeah makes sense, even if you don't go that deep in the cement. when I demolished my basement (was poorly done) they used nails, and I could just kick some of em and they'd break. They were not rusted to the point that they were orange, but they were very brittle.
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:20 AM   #6
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


I am demolishing my basement also, as I wanted to change the layout. They used nails in the base plates and they were in there strong. I had to chisel out around the head, and then use an angle grinder to cut the head off. No moisture issue in my basement I suppose. Though it's not a 100 year old scary dungeon basement. 1966 split level, five feet under and two above.

I decided I'm going to use the 2.5" drive pins no washer for the base plate; so only an 1" will go into the cement. I'll use liquid nails also.

Still trying to determine how to insulate, leave a gap or not, etc...
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:57 AM   #7
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


Jobbly,
I am in the Cleveland area also. I use pt bottom plates with 3" ramset pins, no washer. I have been doing basements this way for over 25 years and haven't had any issues. I also build the walls 1/2"-3/4" short of actual height, stand them up and shim where I fasten to the joists. I don't feel it necessary to cut each stud to exact size and toenail in place. It's not structural.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:04 AM   #8
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


Thanks for the info Mike. How do you go about insulating the walls for this area? Thanks again.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:07 PM   #9
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


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Thanks for the info Mike. How do you go about insulating the walls for this area? Thanks again.
Jobbly,
I leave a small space (1/2"-3/4") between the block walls and the stud walls and use fiberglass batts (R13). Typically we do drop ceilings and wrap the ductwork in 1" x 6" t&g pine to break things up and warm up the room.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:53 PM   #10
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


New code in the province I live in says no batt insulation. Must be foam.
Too many issues with mould and other problems.
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:18 PM   #11
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


It is my understanding that mold cannot grow on fiberglass insulation, though it can feed on the paper backing. However I planned on using unfaced insulation...
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:21 PM   #12
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


Mike, do you leave the space between the blocks and studs because you don't use the rigid foam insulation?
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:26 PM   #13
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


Ramset pins are suitable for attaching a plate to concrete. Penetration of 1/2" into concrete is good enough for this purpose. Do not worry about moisture, the pin enters the concrete at high speed and by force, there is no space left unless you set it too close (3" is min. edge distance) to a concrete edge and concrete cracks upon fastening.

Use washers otherwise head will be overdriven into wood. Red charges are best for a good connection and prevents underdriving.

When using them for light-gauge steel track washers may not be needed, it depends on the gauge of the track.
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:17 PM   #14
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ_in_IL View Post
I recently learned that you should use construction adhesive on the base plate, not a ramset or tapcons. The mechanical fastener penetrates the concrete and could cause an entry point for moisture. I thought that was quite interesting.
Just a thought.
I really don't find that an issue, after all, you are only penetrating the concrete 1 1/2" max, maybe only 1" if the concrete is very old and hard, and the shorter pins must be used to seat the pin head.

The suggestion to built the height of the wall to a little less that the lowest point, allowing you to use a common stud length and frame the wall on the floor , is a real time saver.
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:35 PM   #15
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Does anybody use/suggest Ramset pins for attaching base plate to cement?


"It is my understanding that mold cannot grow on fiberglass insulation, though it can feed on the paper backing." ----- unless it ever gets wet. http://www.inspectapedia.com/sickhou...rglassMold.htm

Insulating partial in-ground basement?

An air space will create a convective loop: “Batts should also be fluffed to full thickness so that they will be in contact with the cavity enclosure on all six sides and not leave gaps for convective looping. Higher density rolled batts are more effective at inhibiting convective looping within the insulation.” From: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...archterm=insul

And the study the above was based on. Page #35, steel stud thermal loss over wood.
Page #46, air gaps and convective loops: http://www.buildingscienceconsulting...Measure_Up.pdf

Gary

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