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Old 03-12-2013, 09:05 PM   #31
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Do you need a vapor barrier behind hardiebacker?


Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
Hardibacker is not waterproof----water will not damage it--however water will absorb into it and eventually soak right on through.

A vapor barrier is required---either on the face of the studs or better yet--a water proof membrane on the exposed face of the backer board---

Where did you hear that Hardi was waterproof?
You are confusing moisture resistance with a flooded area.
Eventually is the key here, and you'll have more issues to deal with by the time the board is fully saturated. HardieBacker board provides superior protection against moisture damage and mold growth and is backed by a limited lifetime product warranty.

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:10 PM   #32
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Do you need a vapor barrier behind hardiebacker?


JRA,

Concerning being personal and giving advice: You are the one who said;

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA773
JAYP, the guy at the flooring store knows more than most of the people given you bad advice here!
You then yelled out;
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA773
YOU DON'T NEED A VAPOR BARRIER WITH HARDIBACKER.
That of course is all wrong. Even in the few areas where a vapor barrier isn't mandatory, (I believe in parts of Louisiana because of the high outdoor humidity and often no insulated walls) It's advisable to apply a surface membrane so the substrate does not get wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA773
They specifically say not to use a Redguard or similar waterproofing on the face as it will not allow thinset to bond as well.
No they don't! Hardie says no such thing! I read it the other day, can't find it now, but they're not talking about a waterproofing membrane. Products like Redgard and Hydro-Ban are made specifically to provide an excellent base for thinset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA773
I’ve had a number of pro tilers tell me they never install a vapor barrier behind or waterproof the front of Hardi-backer.
That is absolutely true. I recommend you not use them since they learned wrong and have not yet realized that mold is not a good thing and can easily be prevented with these products and methods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA773
To say an installation may fail w/no barrier is nuts. We've all seen 30-40 year old homes with tile that was just stuck to regular old drywall with mastic in a tub surround and no leaks or mold. Of course, I don’t condone this, but my point is it’s still on the walls and in decent shape.
I've seen those walls too. Some had no barriers at all. Most were mud jobs though and that's a different deal. The 3/4" of wall mud can absorb the little moisture that penetrated, then it was allowed to evaporate with no damage. Todays wall assemblies are much different.

The sheet & liquid membranes have been developed because of all the problems associated with the low quality work you're describing.

You have the same theory as some hacks. I'm thinking you're not, since you at least have checked for minimum codes in your area apparently. They cut corners and get away with it and so that's their new standard. Of course doing a job wrong, or skipping a step does not necessarily mean it's going to fail. There are manufacturer's specs and industry standards such as ANSI & TCNA that every tile setter should follow. Every trade has its standards.

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Old 03-13-2013, 04:21 PM   #33
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Do you need a vapor barrier behind hardiebacker?


"Although cement backers are unaffected by moisture, they allow the passage of moisture through to the wall cavity if no additional moisture barrier is used. With DensShield Tile Backer, no additional moisture barrier is required or recommended." From; http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...WlK87HmnplLw0w

In that same article, cement board wicks up 3" water in 24 hours time, D.S. wicks only 3/8".

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Old 03-13-2013, 05:01 PM   #34
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Do you need a vapor barrier behind hardiebacker?


In the final analysis,

it's best to speak with the building inspectors, L&I and general building contractors in your area and find out what is code, what is required, what is disapproved. ASK QUESTIONS !!! what's ok here may not be ok there.
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:50 PM   #35
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Do you need a vapor barrier behind hardiebacker?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA773 View Post
Jaz man, Iím not trying get personal and it seems you are, and Iím certainly not trying to hide behind a username. I was just trying to help a beginner who seemed confused since heís been told 2 different things.

My code doesnít require a vapor barrier and my point is you donít need one with Hardibacker by the nature of itís composition. Your plain wrong on them requiring a barrier - their directions say ďcheck your local codeĒ and doesnít say you absolutely need it. Why would they leave that out of their installation videos if you really needed it?

They specifically say not to use a Redguard or similar waterproofing on the face as it will not allow thinset to bond as well. Iíve had a number of pro tilers tell me they never install a vapor barrier behind or waterproof the front of Hardi-backer. It's already waterproof. To say you must have a vapor barrier with Hardi is just not true. Now again, I'm talking about tub surrounds, not pans.

To say an installation may fail w/no barrier is nuts. We've all seen 30-40 year old homes with tile that was just stuck to regular old drywall with mastic
in a tub surround and no leaks or mold. Of course, I donít condone this, but my point is itís still on the walls and in decent shape.
back in the good old days homes were made with plaster on the inside no mold would grow no matter what then they came out with drywall a substance mold loves to grow on stachibautrous a poisonous type of mold loves drywall will grow when drywall gets wet. So mold and moisture are much more of a beg deal now.
every competent tile man will tell you that a vapor barrier is needed between the studs and hardie backer

if you want to know if hardiebacker is water proof just take a bucket cut a hole in the bottom glue the bucket to the hardiebacker and poor 8 ounces of water in the bucket. if the water goes through the hardie backer in less than 7 days obviously it is not water proof.

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