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Old 12-06-2010, 02:15 AM   #31
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Do you live in an ICF house?


you may be onto something here, klinger ( nice dress, btw ) have done some tilt-up & had a casting yard for noise barrier,,, looks like interesting stuff but, for a home, wouldn't production cost of panels take longer to amortize ?

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Old 12-06-2010, 02:44 AM   #32
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Do you live in an ICF house?


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( nice dress, btw ) HEY! I'm tryin' to quit! Old habits....

have done some tilt-up & had a casting yard for noise barrier,,, looks like interesting stuff but, for a home, wouldn't production cost of panels take longer to amortize ? I'm just getting familiar w/ them, via the big bad Net. I will be calling them tomorrow to see if they support a poured-in-place deal so I can DIY it. No TM contractors up here (??), and I have no machine to lift a tilt-up of any size. If they don't go for the idea, I don't see why I can not fabricate a reasonable facsimilie thereof, using galvanized rebar since the center rebar will be exposed to air/water vapor. I don't know that galv is necessary, but it sounds like a good idea. Good primer paint? Much to learn there. Other options are double, 4" ICFs, or a poured 12" wide foundation wall. Spendy?? Yikes!
c after bullets. c ya. private klinger
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:45 AM   #33
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Do you live in an ICF house?


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this system started out in europe over 30yrs ago & have captured about 12% of the bldg mkt here now, i think,,, personally, i can't imagine anyone NOT using icf's for their home for all the abovereferenced reasons,,, for best results, come off the footer w/poured conc as dick says then sub the icf walls to a pro,,, our next to last home in nc will be icf.

Agreed, I don't see any logistical reason to install IF's below grade, other than it may be more "DIY Freindly".


blt several homes, mall, & a church w/reward & we'll use them again but there are many avail - pick a good 1 who's got a plant nearby for frt savings,,, still have braces & bucks so its di-meself,,, if you think energy costs are dropping, don't pick icf,,, as i recall, the addl expense of icf's was amortized w/i 18mos from energy savings - heat AND a/c,,, not sure where klinger gets his info, tho
Your numbers sound like they were cooked up by an ICF manufacturer..............
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:22 PM   #34
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Do you live in an ICF house?


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Your numbers sound like they were cooked up by an ICF manufacturer..............
ORNL did a study on ICFs, and their wall-value R came up something like 23, which is about what you'd get if you added up the component's R's. That makes sense to me, but then you can complicate that with design issues, like adding windows, etc (which you can do w/ any wall, of course). A house is not as simple a system as meets the eye.
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Old 12-06-2010, 06:03 PM   #35
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Do you live in an ICF house?


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ORNL did a study on ICFs, and their wall-value R came up something like 23, which is about what you'd get if you added up the component's R's. That makes sense to me, but then you can complicate that with design issues, like adding windows, etc (which you can do w/ any wall, of course). A house is not as simple a system as meets the eye.
Certainly not questioning the R-value, just the actual cost savings & pay-back period.

Last time I looked into an ICF basement, the forms and all the accessories for a 1500 sq. foot, simple basement was in the $6-8000 range. Not to mention the additional labor factor compared to more conventional systems. You'd have to have highly outrageous heating & cooling bills to recoup that initial investment in 18 months.
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:16 PM   #36
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Do you live in an ICF house?


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Certainly not questioning the R-value, just the actual cost savings & pay-back period.

Last time I looked into an ICF basement, the forms and all the accessories for a 1500 sq. foot, simple basement was in the $6-8000 range. Not to mention the additional labor factor compared to more conventional systems. You'd have to have highly outrageous heating & cooling bills to recoup that initial investment in 18 months.
Jo: I think we are on the same side of the fence on this issue. I don't think an R-22 is enough in cold climates, and if it is, then why go to the expense of ICFs? I was referring to the "effective R value of 40 (or 50)" claims that I hear. BS. Until someone builds otherwise identical houses in the same spot and proves me wrong, I'll stick w/ the physics of heat movement. Double wall w/ DPC is far cheaper and uses far less energy. P, EOS.
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:34 PM   #37
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Do you live in an ICF house?


I looked into this system and said no thank you. I did not like the wiring and plumbing method. I thought it would be more difficult to do an add if you wanted to expand later. I would not use it for a foundation. My friend has one of these houses and he has to be careful when he weed whips around the house because it damages the blocks. I think he had to use screws to put in his finished trim. He also took out a few corners in his house because the jogs were more difficult ( so he told me). And I thought it was quite expensive. Of course I pay around 4 cents a kilowatt hour.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:33 PM   #38
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Do you live in an ICF house?


Below grade, I think they are a pretty neat product. Unless your soils, etc, are such that an all-weather wood can be used, concrete is about the only option, and concrete is just hard work no matter what you do. I found the ICFs we used in my son's house were well built and real convenient for running rebar. Wiring and plumbing is different, if not difficult, at least for folks new to it. I, too, will pass on it for a living area unless I have to go that route. To each his own.

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