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Old 09-08-2012, 09:03 AM   #1
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Different way to mount ledger board?


Good evening!

I am a fairly handy homeowner and have built several shops, decks, etc over the years. I also do woodworking, welding, etc.

I am looking at a new project and I have a question. I have a concrete patio that I want to put a pergola over. I want to attach the pergola to the house and anchor 6x6 posts into the concrete using Simpson Strong-Tie EPB44T/EPB44PHDG Elevated Post Base anchors (epoxied into the concrete for uplift conditions) to support the other side. The rafters will be 4x6's 24" OC and span about 11 feet or so. The only load will be themselves and some TuffTex vinyl panels on top of them.

The issue I have is attaching the ledger board to the house. There is a 12" header I can attach to. However, the header is covered by OSB/wire mesh/scratch coat and rock veneer. There would be at least a 2-3" standoff from the header due to the rock veneer. I spoke with an architect and he suggested mounting the ledger board to the bottom of the rafter tails (they are 2x6's 16" OC) and hanging the rafters from it using metal brackets.

I like the architect's idea better than removing the rock veneer, attaching the ledger and trying to get it waterproof, etc. I would cut out the vinyl soffit material where the ledger would be to ensure a tight fit between the ledger and the rafter tails. I plan on using construction adhesive and 1/2" lag screws to attach the ledger board (pre-drilling to prevent splitting).

The other option would be to place 1/2" ID galvanized pipe into spaces between the rocks and mounting the ledger board to them with 1/2" galvanized lag screws. My concern with this is the downward pressure of the connectors onto the veneer causing cracks.

Here's a link to a sketch- http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/...s/c6c5824e.png
And a link to a picture of the house where it will be attached - http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/...s/916d669d.jpg

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Comments on the various mounting methods I've mentioned are welcomed.

Thanks!
Chad

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:03 AM   #2
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Different way to mount ledger board?


How about posts beside the house with beams on top, the same idea as the outer side of the pergola?

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:17 AM   #3
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Different way to mount ledger board?


I have thought about that. I'd really like to not have to block any of the casement windows on the sunroom if I could avaoid it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:28 AM   #4
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Different way to mount ledger board?


Or remove the gutters and fashia and cut the roof back enough so the beams are sitting on top of the wall.
If I understand you correctly just trying to lag bolt a ledger though the end grain on a rafter will have little strength. That's the weakest part of the board.

I'm also concered with how you have the roof ending right in front of that fireplace.
Just thinking about rain water run off.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:39 PM   #5
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Different way to mount ledger board?


I like mae-ling/s free standing idea. And not to pull out a can of semantics all over you, a true pergola is free standing.
I don't like the pipe idea, mostly 'cause i don't understand it. What are pipes to be fastened to? The header? In that case why not leave them out and attach ledger there? No more problem weather proofing than rafter attachment. Your weather proofing is gonna be out there at fascia and new roof.
You "spoke" with architect, did he actually see the place? Will the rafters hold against outward pressure trying to bow out wall and downward pressure trying to leverage ridge up?
But if architect approves, i ain't gonna argue, learned long ago not to argue with archies, do it their way, if gotta come bck and rip it all out and start over, it ain't on my nickel, in fact I get more nickels. Falsh and seal real good where new roof meets old, From drawing looks like new roof is right up under faschia, use some wide Z flashing there. Under existing shingles, down fascia and out over new roof.
Last final concern, slope of new roof, from personal experince with my own similar patio cover, with coruugated roof. I removed faschia,attached new rafters directly to rafter tails no ledger, I had lighter rafters than your beams. Had similar change in roof slope, still well within panels recommended minimum, had over a foot of flashing over it. Rain runs down house roof and right across new just fine. For a while. At change in slope, water drops leaves, twigs, other debris, eventually settles and packs into valleys of corrugated, creates a dam at flashing edge. You may get more dropped debris at the water fall created by having new roof under fascia. Water backs up under flashing and despite under flashing and all my caulking I still get leaks where where new meets old and length wise seams at high ends. I've added another foot of flashing, helped some. Dam is way up the slope and hard to reach, I even made a "rake" from 1X4 cut to match corrugations and screw together paint roller handle extender, unweildy especially on step ladder that I gotta get out and lug around. I wish now I had started roof higher on house roof to get more slope, still have change but maybe wouldn't be so bad. But i was being cheap trying to get by with fewer panels and seams across roof. Still had some Cause lengths and widths worked out to where I had some cut offs that could be seamed and run up the last space. Hopefully you can use all full length pieces. If not, make your seams at low end. Cause I got one that is way too high and it is right where I walk out door during rain to stand in disgust at dribbles and cold water drips right down the back of my neck. I really oughta fix it, there was the time big drop landed right on lap top key board and for a while I couldn't waste time tellin' other people how they should do things, but can't fix it in rain, and when its not raining....
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:42 PM   #6
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Different way to mount ledger board?


The ledger board would actually be on the bottom of the tails, not on the end. Basically, rotate your typical ledger board and attach it to the bottom of the tails, not the ends.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:43 PM   #7
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Different way to mount ledger board?


The architect came out to the house and discussed different ways of doing things. That was just one of many ways we talked about. This way being one I could easily do myself. I don't really want to cut back rafters, etc. At that point, I might as well go full-bore and build a full-up covered patio.

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll have to think about the runoff on the fireplace.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:33 PM   #8
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Different way to mount ledger board?


"The ledger board would actually be on the bottom of the tails" i got that part from very nice drawing.
"I'll have to think about the runoff on the fireplace." Rain gutter, half round bronze color to match how well everything else will look.
You are building a " a full-up covered patio" as far as I can tell, I don't really understand what you mean by that. If architect says hanging ledger will work, and you can do it easily, do it, and what ever you do, you wanta "go full bore."
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:42 PM   #9
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Different way to mount ledger board?


I assume that snow load is not a factor! Otherwise, hanging the ledger on the underside of the rafter tails would not be an option.

Using sleeves through the stone veneer would place weight on the stone and is not likely a good idea.
I would say that the top course of the stone should be removed, a suitable flashing installed to cap the stone work and then install the ledger to the wall framing.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:29 PM   #10
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Different way to mount ledger board?


How are you attaching the rafters to the ledger board on the flat?
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:38 PM   #11
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Different way to mount ledger board?


in the drawing you show the ledger attatched to the rafter as being almost horizontal, it will be tipped the same angle as the rafters.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:00 AM   #12
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Different way to mount ledger board?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyT View Post
in the drawing you show the ledger attatched to the rafter as being almost horizontal, it will be tipped the same angle as the rafters.
Not necessarily it depends on the type of rafter.
Some bring the bottom chord of a truss right out to the fascia, this allows extra room for insulation.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #13
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Different way to mount ledger board?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Or remove the gutters and fashia and cut the roof back enough so the beams are sitting on top of the wall.
If I understand you correctly just trying to lag bolt a ledger though the end grain on a rafter will have little strength. That's the weakest part of the board.

I'm also concered with how you have the roof ending right in front of that fireplace.
Just thinking about rain water run off.
"I second that, cut everything back and place the rafters on the top plates of the wall". That way you'll have a solid roof system and the height will be great, not closed in feeling".
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:16 PM   #14
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Different way to mount ledger board?


"Using sleeves.." Oh, now I see what Wic meant. Duh! You wouldn't beleave the bizarre image I had in my mind. Stupid brain, go away and leave me alone.
Well, Wic, so far it seems that none of us is much in favor of your architects idea. Could be a tiny bit of prejudice if some of them have had some similar experiences I've had with some architects. But i think these are the voices of experience. Some architects lean towards the "artsy" side, some more to the engineering side of their trade, here you need an engineer type.
mae, "How are you attaching the rafters..." there's gotta be a hanger for that, somthin similar in appearance to deck post tie, a U with mounting flanges. I'd wanta bolt those to horizontal ledger afore installing it. I've used over sized top flange joist hangers to suspend joists below beams and properly oriented ledgers ( say a 2X4 in 2X6 hanger) they'd have to be preinstalled too, maybe in pairs. There are wrought iron ones that hang over and down both sides of a beam, true hangers as there are no fastener holes. But...
wic, how are you fastening ledger to rafters?

Is there a zero-clearance chimney available for the fire place? Consider moving fireplace under canopy or extending roof? A flashing concern there, possibly debris/rain diverter.

I third Joe's idea, its not that hard to do. Its what I did, except I bird mouthed new rafters (at the wrong end) and ran them up under existing roof a few feet and tied them into existing but reinforced trusses. But then mine leaks, so whadda I know? sigh...(That might have had something to do with strange gravity shift anomaly that occured while building it)
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