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Old 06-30-2011, 09:13 PM   #1
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Deteriorated wall help


Hi all. New to the site and am excited to get your expertise and hopefully help others in the future.

I am rehabbing an old block home built in the 30s. In one room I want to fur the walls and hang drywall but here is the problem. The block is covered with what appears to be a layer of concrete/mortar and in some places a plaster coating on top of that. In many areas one or both layers have disintegrated so the walls are not smooth. That means I cannot attach furring strips so they are plumb. I was able to brush off or chip away many areas but I don't want to damage the block.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
JB

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Old 06-30-2011, 09:39 PM   #2
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Deteriorated wall help


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That means I cannot attach furring strips so they are plumb.
Oh sure you can.

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Old 06-30-2011, 09:54 PM   #3
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Deteriorated wall help


You mention wall material, but not insulation or vapor barriers. The wall probably deteriorated due to moisture. What are you doing so the moisture coming through the wall is not going to have issue with the wall material?
You might want to go into greater detail about the structure and where you live.
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:08 AM   #4
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@ron6519 - I am putting up vinyl siding and will be wrapping the house to control the moisture issue that block homes are notorious for. Inside I plan on gluing styrofoam insulation to the block for insulation.

@Bud - Care to share a good method? I need to stay close to the wall because that wall is continuous with a staircase and I want the wall/staircase to be on the same plane.

Thanks,
JB

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Old 07-01-2011, 09:04 AM   #5
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@Bud - Care to share a good method? I need to stay close to the wall because that wall is continuous with a staircase and I want the wall/staircase to be on the same plane.

Can't see it, can't imagine what you are up against.

If you say you can't attach firring strips because of loose material and irregularities in the existing wall then you can basically build in front of the existing wall.

If you say you can't attach firring strips because you don't have the necessary room then that's a different issue.

I've never seen a wall that couldn't be cosmetically improved. Even 2"X2"'s can be used in most cases. Basic 2" X 2" [bottom plate] and [top plate], then 2"X2" 's for studs. Shim the studs to the old face for additional support.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Maybe a picture or two would be beneficial.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:18 AM   #6
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I noticed you stated you will be "wrapping the house" and putting rigid insulation against the interior. Be sure to pay attention to the permeability of the "wrapping" material you plan to use. Rigid insulation in many cases is considered a vapor barrier (very few are not) and if you place a vapor barrier on the inside and outside you could create a problem for yourself down the road.

As far as the furring, you can take a wire brush to the low areas of the wall and apply some mortar yourself. You don't need to make the entire wall look good you just need to provide a level surface for the furring to sit against. Try shooting the furring strip in with a power shot and see what happens. If the block and coating spalls (falls apart) then you will have to either build and interior framed wall that is independent of the masonry wall or try and re-plaster.
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:59 PM   #7
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?

At best, XPS and EPS are vapour retarders, not barriers and polyisocyanurate panels are vapour barriers if they are foil-faced. Everyone with XPS inside of their homes with Tyvek outside would make Dow very unhappy...
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:14 PM   #8
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Be careful on the assumptions that EPS and XPS are not vapor barriers. In minimal thicknesses (usually under 1") they are relatively permeable and are considered vapor retarders. But as the thickness increases the permeability decreases. As soon as the permeability drops below 1.0 perms then it is considered a vapor barrier by code. Polyisocyanurate is a vapor barrier wether or not it has a foil face attached.

Not sure how the XPS interior and tyvek exterior would make Dow unhappy...
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:23 PM   #9
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Yeah we get that; 2" of XPS has a rating of 0.55 perms = a semi-permeable membrane. Thicker than that, who cares?

Probably why they don't make 3" XPS or 4" XPS for interioor residential applications...Dow would be in trouble if they did. Think about it.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Can't see it, can't imagine what you are up against.

If you say you can't attach firring strips because of loose material and irregularities in the existing wall then you can basically build in front of the existing wall.

If you say you can't attach firring strips because you don't have the necessary room then that's a different issue.

I've never seen a wall that couldn't be cosmetically improved. Even 2"X2"'s can be used in most cases. Basic 2" X 2" [bottom plate] and [top plate], then 2"X2" 's for studs. Shim the studs to the old face for additional support.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Maybe a picture or two would be beneficial.
I built 2X walls in some other areas of the house (which was great for running my network and electric) but I can't on this wall because it is continuous with the stairs. I would end up with a 2.5" vertical lip where the stairs enter the room. I guess I could move the stringer over a couple inches and have 33" wide stairs. The stringers are hung but I haven't completed the stairs yet. That would also add some depth to the windows, though...

I'll give the wire brush a shot and see how that goes and consider framing as an alternative.

I added a few pics in case that spurs any other input.

Thanks all. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Deteriorated wall help-wall1e.jpg   Deteriorated wall help-wall2e.jpg   Deteriorated wall help-wall3e.jpg  
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:39 AM   #11
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Deteriorated wall help


Why can't you just move the stringer that's near the wall away enough to get the clearance you need?
It looks like there's about 2" there now.
How much do you want?
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:37 PM   #12
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Deteriorated wall help


2" foam with Z-studs and you can sheetrock right over. The old wall surface looks plenty flat, you shouldn't need to do much to it.

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