Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-29-2012, 09:11 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Share |
Default

Deck railing


I currently have a concrete patio off the back of my house. It is 15'x26'. There is currently no railing around it so I am researching and estimating the cost of building one at an affordable price. I am planning on putting up posts and have planned where to put them but am unsure which would be the most stable and have the most strength laterally. Either I'm going to anchor them on top or notch them and anchor them from the side. Which one will give me the most stability?

Also I'm concerned about attaching wood railings to my concrete patio for fear of expansion and contraction rates of the wood and concrete and if the freezing and thawing will cause the wood fasteners to pull out. I originally thought of setting posts in concrete around the outside of the patio and not attaching the railings to the patio at all, but this would be considerably more work. Any suggestions and/or opinions would be helpful. I will add some pictures soon.

Joshual1177 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 09:20 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 25,761
Default

Deck railing


If this deck is almost a ground level, why the railings?
Far better to dig the holes and set in concrete then to try and attach to the top of the concrete. They would be far more stable.

joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 04:05 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Default

Deck railing


My back yard is sloped away from the house so at the end of the patio it is about 3' up. Plus we have two small children and my wife is starting a daycare at our house.
Joshual1177 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 07:02 AM   #4
Residential Designer
 
AndyGump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County CA.
Posts: 1,258
Send a message via Skype™ to AndyGump
Default

Deck railing


Your CONCRETE patio 36" high (partially)?

My brain...she no get it.

Andy.
__________________
Residential Drafter/Designer
www.draftinginoc.com

Last edited by AndyGump; 03-30-2012 at 09:16 AM.
AndyGump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 07:44 AM   #5
Willing to listen
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West of St. Louis MO in the country
Posts: 145
Default

Deck railing


Steel or powder coated aluminum fencing might be an option to consider for direct attachment to the concrete. Sometimes a local welding shop will design/fab and install these or there are do it yourself brands like Specrail on the market.
Done That is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 07:50 AM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Default

Deck railing


Maybe it's more like 2 1/2' high. The owners before us had a retaining wall and flower bed around it flush with the height of the patio but when the bank foreclosed on them, they decided to take the bricks with them along with a few other things from the house. But, I digress.

There are two concrete steps off the high side of it with a temporary handrail. I freak out every time my 2 1/2 year old climbs them because they're so high.

Anyway, I will post pictures later today so you can get an idea of what I have to work with.

Thanks
Joshual1177 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 08:14 AM   #7
Coconut Pete's paella!
 
CoconutPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC / Denmark
Posts: 1,317
Default

Deck railing


Can you post a pic? That would help.
CoconutPete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 09:01 AM   #8
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,137
Default

Deck railing


There are generally very strict regulations on the spacing and height of handrails, and the minimum lateral load they are required to resist. Your local building inspector should know all about this. This is especially important if you start a day care center, which as a commercial enterprise will require appropriate insurance, therefore the handrails must meet local code to the letter. I would check with the building inspector about how they want it done.

Whether you can attach to the existing concrete would depend on how strong and thick the concrete is. It may be possible to use epoxy anchors, expansion anchors, or powder driven fasteners, but again the building inspector has the final call.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 09:53 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 25,761
Default

Deck railing


In most cases a railing needs to be able to withstand a side load of 250 lb.
A great way to do this would be with the suggested powder coating railings.
The best way to attach them is using a core drill, the railings are set in epoxy.
With powder coating they should never rust, and by installing with the epoxy there never going to come loose. The railings would all be prewelded with spacing that meets code.
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 10:54 AM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Default

Deck railing


I know all the code requirements to do it myself. I own a current residential codebook for the state of Michigan. I will probably end up setting the posts in concrete to be safe. I certainly cannot afford aluminum or powder-coated rails. It would cost me 3 times as much as building them myself.
Joshual1177 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 11:33 AM   #11
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,137
Default

Deck railing


I am a little confused here. You say you know all the code requirements to do it yourself. The deck code in my town, which of course may be different than yours, discusses guard requirements on page 15 (this is the 2006 IRC Prescriptive Residential Wood Deck Construction Guide). Figure 24 shows an attachment detail which is not applicable to your situation, because you have a concrete deck, and Figure 24 is for attachment to a wooden beam.

My code says "one example is shown in Figure 24. Other methods and materials may be used for guard construction when approved by the authority having jurisdiction." Page 26 includes a number of figures and text discussing alternative attachment methods for guard posts, none of which are applicable to your situation. What I get out of this is that you can certainly propose a method of attaching your guard posts to the building inspector, and if they approve, you are all set. Three methods were suggested, specifically epoxy, expansion bolts, and powder actuated nails. You came up with a fourth technique, setting the posts in concrete, which I think has significant difficulties.

You need to find a way to fix the new concrete to the existing concrete. This is not so simple, given that you probably do not want to pour a lot of concrete per post. Setting the posts in the concrete is generally not a good idea, since wooden posts, even pressure treated, may rot quickly when encased in concrete if the concrete shrinks during curing, allowing water to collect adjacent to the wooden post. The Prescriptive Guide I referred to, does not permit posts to be embedded in concrete, but requires that they be installed on a standoff plate (see Figure 12). Again, you may operate under a different code, and Figure 12 strictly applies to support posts, not guard posts, so perhaps the rules would be different.

Again, I suggest you talk to your building inspector, only they can make the final call on what is acceptable.

Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deck Staining Nightmare steven994 Painting 6 04-06-2014 09:10 PM
Extending height of deck railing tntworks General DIY Discussions 4 03-11-2013 07:16 AM
Privacy railing construction for deck - ideas on design? Quicksmoke Building & Construction 2 03-28-2012 10:36 PM
Building a new deck....and creative uses of granite scrap in outdoor living space Rhizzlebop Building & Construction 9 05-15-2009 11:17 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.