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-   -   deck, plan drawing...what do you think? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/deck-plan-drawing-what-do-you-think-181979/)

csmonte 06-17-2013 09:44 AM

deck, plan drawing...what do you think?
 
Here is my deck, most of this has been done, but still some things are being worked on. Let me know if there is a better way to do things...especially regarding my guard posts, and I'm probably going to triple my trimmer boards, due to the 11' span on my bay area.

let me know concerns or if I'm missing something. My guard posts will be supporting a pergola those posts are labeled G&P for guard and pergola support. I'm really about to get this thing rapped up asap, so thanks for your quick input.

the bottom is a picture of roughly what has been constructed just so you know where I am, and am/getting rid of the beam and have new footers at the corners.

thanks

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...03913617_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...11542788_n.jpg

here is a picture of roughly what has been constructed just so you know where I am, and am/getting rid of the beam and have new footers at the corners.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...35349059_n.jpg

currently I'm mostly concerned with guard post design being the best to support pergola, and bay span, which I'm going to add a support post at the left trimmer and doubler intersection. This is a re-post, I figured I might get better feedback in the "construction" section since its a construction. thanks, I'm really kinda waiting on some details to get this going.

nicktools561 06-17-2013 10:00 AM

Judging from your plans and then looking at the picture, I see you need to put four more guard posts still. If you are worried about bracing by the window because you are not placing a post by it.. then I would suggest strengthening the framing with crosses braces. Personally I would ask an engineer about the load.. Good luck, let us know how things are progressing!

csmonte 06-17-2013 12:07 PM

Quote:

If you are worried about bracing by the window because you are not placing a post by it.. then I would suggest strengthening the framing with crosses braces
well, I was going to add anothersupport post there, for 2 reasons. 1: doing so I could reduce the requirement for a tripple trimmer board on that side by taking the weight off the point of attachment to the trimmer. And to be honest, there really isn't much "meat" to attach to the house there at the corner, I feel that that bay span all sitting on the trimmers and then onto the house in just one spot sitting on 6-8 screws/nails is a bit much.

2nd, I was concidering a cross brace on that support post, going to the right and will attach to the "double" (in front of bay board), which would help support my span a bit better.

It sounds a little nontraditional but I only see 4 options.

1: don't try to support house attachment or help the span at all
2: add just a support post near house or intersection of trimmer and doubler.
3: I thought of adding metal adjustable supports and attaching them to the concrete foundation. like a turnbuckle, but I that seems kinda crazy.
4: add 2 support posts under the doubler in the middle of the way, which would be really impractical cut the useability of the patio dramatically

These are just what I've came up with for options if this is an issue, not sure it is that big of a deal, its kind of a plan B.

csmonte 06-17-2013 12:10 PM

does anyone have any comment on my guard post/pergola support idea. if this could be suggested as my best option, I can get started, the bay span can get added support later as I'm working that way.

csmonte 06-19-2013 03:03 PM

Anyone?
thanks

Bugman1400 06-20-2013 08:14 AM

I was waiting to see replies from GB or Joe but, I'll give my 2 cents. I would not transfer the load from the pergola to the posts via bolts. Also, I would cut the post notch for the beams deep enough to be even with the top of the beam. The dwg you show shows one bolt through the post and beam and one bolt just through the beam. Also, your dwg does not match the picture. The picture shows the joists cantilevered over the beam. The dwg does not show the cantilever.

csmonte 06-21-2013 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugman1400 (Post 1204377)
I would not transfer the load from the pergola to the posts via bolts. Also, I would cut the post notch for the beams deep enough to be even with the top of the beam.

I agree with the load and I understand that engineering I also thought the load would be fairly minimal, being only the weight of the pergola and no decking or person/snow load. This is what I had originally decided to do, I have a double outside beam, which is considered my rim joist. I was told I need to have a double. So that is 3" notch on all non cornered and another 1.5 on a corner support/guard/pergola post it would be one post around 16' long.

however thought that seemed like a lot of meat/material to be cutting out. I also read that they do not suggest to notch guard posts. So I'm having a hard time with a suggested or required double rim joist and no notched post situation.

Quote:

The dwg you show shows one bolt through the post and beam and one bolt just through the beam.
and then one more below deck around a foot down for stability through support post and guard/pergola support post. I also considered if needed heavy 90 degree metal braket that the pergola post sits on that will be connected to support post. cosmetically this won't look all that good.

Quote:

your dwg does not match the picture. The picture shows the joists cantilevered over the beam. The dwg does not show the cantilever.
the current photo is a picture of what was to be, with the beam setup and cantilever. This is not going to be there. I have pored new footings you can see in the same picture just at the end of the patio. So in short, disregard the beam and the reddish colored support posts they are not going to be there. (they had very weak footings I did not trust and I was eliminating the 32" cantilever BEAM I had.)

I know this is long, I just want to be thorough so people could give me some decent answers/advise/solution.

I really appreciate your help btw.

Bugman1400 06-21-2013 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmonte (Post 1205108)
I agree with the load and I understand that engineering I also thought the load would be fairly minimal, being only the weight of the pergola and no decking or person/snow load. This is what I had originally decided to do, I have a double outside beam, which is considered my rim joist. I was told I need to have a double. So that is 3" notch on all non cornered and another 1.5 on a corner support/guard/pergola post it would be one post around 16' long.

however thought that seemed like a lot of meat/material to be cutting out. I also read that they do not suggest to notch guard posts. So I'm having a hard time with a suggested or required double rim joist and no notched post situation.

and then one more below deck around a foot down for stability through support post and guard/pergola support post. I also considered if needed heavy 90 degree metal braket that the pergola post sits on that will be connected to support post. cosmetically this won't look all that good.

the current photo is a picture of what was to be, with the beam setup and cantilever. This is not going to be there. I have pored new footings you can see in the same picture just at the end of the patio. So in short, disregard the beam and the reddish colored support posts they are not going to be there. (they had very weak footings I did not trust and I was eliminating the 32" cantilever BEAM I had.)

I know this is long, I just want to be thorough so people could give me some decent answers/advise/solution.

I really appreciate your help btw.

Perhaps you should just support the outside beam with the posts, cut the 6x6 post 3" and use two bolts through both beam and post. Forget the way you are supporting the pergola. I agree the pergola is relatively light but, pretend that it is heavy. I think you can support the pergola with 6x6 posts that are directly on top of the 6x6 post and beam below. You may be able to get away with using two or three posts instead of four. You should be able to get 20' 2x10s to use as a beam at a lumber yard (no, not HD or Lowes). You will also need to add the diagonal bracing at the post and beam joints on the main structure and the pergola for lateral stability.

csmonte 06-22-2013 01:37 PM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...71168964_n.jpg

Is this what your explaining from a top view? I might consider notching on the side just 1.5". this will keep things inline with staying in between my windows. again, considering if this is your idea. If I did this I could over lap the top pergola/guard posts a bit farther to give a bit more lateral strength if you know what I mean.
So doing things this way my deck would get a bit smaller and I would have to cut decking around the posts.

On to the pergola, the pergola is going to be used on the right 3 exterior(along rim joist) guard posts. so it will not be covering the entire deck. things get complicated with the bay and the large windows. So the left outer post will not be an extended guard post to pergola, just a regular guard post. let me know if we are on the same page. sorry for the dark drawing. Also, I can draw something up on the overlap idea if you interested.

Bugman1400 06-22-2013 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmonte (Post 1205594)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...71168964_n.jpg

Is this what your explaining from a top view? I might consider notching on the side just 1.5". this will keep things inline with staying in between my windows. again, considering if this is your idea. If I did this I could over lap the top pergola/guard posts a bit farther to give a bit more lateral strength if you know what I mean.
So doing things this way my deck would get a bit smaller and I would have to cut decking around the posts.

On to the pergola, the pergola is going to be used on the right 3 exterior(along rim joist) guard posts. so it will not be covering the entire deck. things get complicated with the bay and the large windows. So the left outer post will not be an extended guard post to pergola, just a regular guard post. let me know if we are on the same page. sorry for the dark drawing. Also, I can draw something up on the overlap idea if you interested.

Actually, I would move the deck support post in line with the pergola support post. Forget trying to support the single outside rim joist. However, I forgot that you have already poured your footers so, you may have an alignment problem. I also could not tell how you plan to support the house-side of the pergola.

csmonte 06-25-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Actually, I would move the deck support post in line with the pergola support post. Forget trying to support the single outside rim joist
sorry, I'm having a hard time figuring out how the deck itself will be supported. The rim joist is kinda my beam, since I won't be having a cantilevered joists and a beam like many decks and the picture of what it used to be.

I can draw another picture. but I guess try to explain how my deck will be supported if I bring the supports to the inside of my beam.

I've considered (similar to my last drawing) notching the pergola/guard post over to flush with the left of the last outside joist. That will let all the guard post sit inline left to right. I will have a notched post but only 1.5".

Sorry the drawing is on the left side corner and there won't be a pergola there, I just started drawing and didn't think about that. there will still be a guard post of course.

Bugman1400 06-29-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmonte (Post 1206878)
sorry, I'm having a hard time figuring out how the deck itself will be supported. The rim joist is kinda my beam, since I won't be having a cantilevered joists and a beam like many decks and the picture of what it used to be.

I can draw another picture. but I guess try to explain how my deck will be supported if I bring the supports to the inside of my beam.

I've considered (similar to my last drawing) notching the pergola/guard post over to flush with the left of the last outside joist. That will let all the guard post sit inline left to right. I will have a notched post but only 1.5".

Sorry the drawing is on the left side corner and there won't be a pergola there, I just started drawing and didn't think about that. there will still be a guard post of course.

If you think about the rim joist and the other attached joists first and then think about the connection to the house via the ledger. Then, you can think about the outside posts and whether you need two, three, or four posts to support the rim joist. The posts don't have to be at the corners of the rim joist, they can be moved towards the center of the rim joist a foot or two based on the length of the rim joist. The formula, I think, is LB/4. So, if your rim joist is 8 feet between the outermost post and the next post then, your rim joist can overhang (cantilever) by 8ft/4 which equal 2 feet. If the distance between the posts are shorter than 8 feet then, your overhang will have to be shorter.

Assuming you are using SYP, your 20' x 14' deck should need no less than three posts. If you actually use three posts, the distance between them would be 20'/3 posts which equals 6.66 feet. So, your overhang can be 6.66ft/4 which equals 1.66 feet. You could round that down to 1.5 feet or 18 inches to make more sense.

Got it?

csmonte 07-01-2013 05:44 PM

yes I got what your saying, I would of liked to do a beam setup with a cantilever but I unfortunately I poured a patio slab last fall, before I knew the deck was changing this much. Then I thought I had everything figured out and I used a core drill and put new strong footers just into the edge of my patio, this was after all of what is in the picture has already been constructed. Then, I decided on a pergola. Short story long, I did everything in the wrong order.

UPDATE:
I spoke with my local city inspector which was really nice, he looked over the pictures I have and he was fine with the deck. He plugged in some span charts and did some math on things, he made some modifications with the brackets, and wants a triple 2x10 in front of the bay, but all in all he's happy with everything. So I'm working on this plan. I have some new ideas for the pergola, which is going to cover the whole deck now. attachment to the house is my new idea. I'll be making a drawing and posting them soon enough.

I will try to keep some progress pictures as I go, I'm sure ill bump into some questions but I think I have a good idea how its going to go.


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