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Old 03-03-2013, 08:33 AM   #181
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I learned to start at the bottom
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:42 AM   #182
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I am building to code and it says to pour 8" thick layer in 2' deep hole, place 6x6 on top of 8" thick layer, then pour another 8" thick layer around the post. It just shows a picture so at first I though I needed to let the first layer dry and put the post on solid concrete before putting in the second layer. I realized quickly that that was not right (just not quick enough). Now I have 12 empty holes and 1 with 160lbs of concrete. Lol. Ill just buy an anchor for that on and a 6" x 5/8" bolt. Then ill pour another 80lb bag on top of that.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:56 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by 12penny View Post
I learned to start at the bottom
and work my way up. I have a
friend who builds like you do,
top down.

It's funny when we have the
opportunity to work together.
I do not lose sight of the beginning stage but push ahead regardless. also to note, I build with the temp brace when framing flush joists with hangers, a drop beam works totally different because the footings are up under the deck( who wants to crawl under and dig those footings?? ).
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:38 AM   #184
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Don't you guys think it would be stronger to use maybe 4" of concrete below post with 12" around it? 8" of concrete just doesn't seem all that strong to me. For the rest of the holes I'm thinking 1.5 80lb bags in the empty hole followed by the post on top and another 2.5 80lb bags around it. It would be the same amount of concrete but since the posts will be a little over 6' out of the ground on one side I feel like more around the post will be stronger.

Will the posts have any lateral pressure once they are all set level and attached to the framing? If not then a thicker layer underneath would make sense to handle the downward pressure of the weight of the framing/people on that post. .

Last edited by nikeman; 03-03-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:54 AM   #185
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Don't you guys think it would be stronger to use maybe 4" of concrete below post with 12" around it? 8" of concrete just doesn't seem all that strong to me. For the rest of the holes I'm thinking 1.5 80lb bags in the empty hole followed by the post on top and another 2.5 80lb bags around it. It would be the same amount of concrete but since the posts will be a little over 6' out of the ground on one side I feel like more around the post will be stronger.

Will the posts have any lateral pressure once they are all set level and attached to the framing? If not then a thicker layer underneath would make sense to handle the downward pressure of the weight of the framing/people on that post. .
you need at least 8" of solid concrete under post to hold the weight of the deck and people etc... diagonal bracing at the top of the posts where they meet the floor system is how to laterally support the deck. honestly, I'd forget adding any concrete around the posts- not a good idea for the most part because of the long term rot potential of the post buried forever.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #186
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Code says lateral supports attached from post to deck framing are only for free standing decks. It says all lateral support for my deck is provided by the house attachment. I may add the lateral bracing at the end anyway. It makes a lot more since doing the footings like they say now. But in order to pass inspection and have posts on top of concrete I'd have to have the entire hole filled with concrete and a preset j-hook looking anchor in place.

How does wood rot in concrete? It's protected from the soil and most moisture right? Could I wrap the ends in plastic before covering with concrete? The old deck posts were only buried 2" in the dirt with no concrete or anything for 14 or so years and they had no signs of rot where they touched the ground all that time. I'm actually thinking about reusing some of those 4xs as hand rail posts since I'm using vinyl sleeves anyway.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:34 AM   #187
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Code says lateral supports attached from post to deck framing are only for free standing decks. It says all lateral support for my deck is provided by the house attachment. I may add the lateral bracing at the end anyway. It makes a lot more since doing the footings like they say now. But in order to pass inspection and have posts on top of concrete I'd have to have the entire hole filled with concrete and a preset j-hook looking anchor in place.

How does wood rot in concrete? It's protected from the soil and most moisture right? Could I wrap the ends in plastic before covering with concrete? The old deck posts were only buried 2" in the dirt with no concrete or anything for 14 or so years and they had no signs of rot where they touched the ground all that time. I'm actually thinking about reusing some of those 4xs as hand rail posts since I'm using vinyl sleeves anyway.
would be smart to add lateral bracing at the end away from the dwelling. you are correct in the house provides lateral bracing at that end of the deck, but not at the opposite end.

rot requires high moisture levels and air. if rot is so common in buried wood then why don't wharf piers rot? they will at the water-to-air intersection not below the water line. the reason? no air to support the organisms responsible for rot. if you have a concern about buried wood then wrap the post in ice and water shield (especially the bottom & where the post comes out of the ground) and use ground contact rated preservative treated wood. slope the ground so that water run away from the posts and does not pond at those locations. Also the building code (2009 IRC) has prescriptive design requirements for subsurface wooden foundations.

with that said I always install my wood post above grade with the use of a stand-off post base (the ones I posted earlier) so that visual inspections of the deck can be made easier. You need to perform inspections on a yearly (at minimum) basis to find potential problems and fix them before they become serious problems.

Hope this helps!
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:37 AM   #188
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I"m talking long term and codes are based on long term as well. when I build a deck I'm thinking out 50 years- that is about as far out as can be realistically projected. your 14 year deck was but a small time period in the over all scheme. if deck is over 4' tall lateral bracing is needed out on the ends, not at the house unless freestanding. posts buried in concrete should be left for fences only IMO and they need to be ground contact treated lumber.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #189
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Nikeman,

Installing the posts can be done many ways, and you will get different opinions on what people think is correct. I know around here many contractors will do as you first said. Pour the footing (whatever thickness/diameter), let it cure, then come back and mix a bag of concrete, dump a little in the hole, set the 6x6 post in the hole, then pour the rest of the concrete in the hole. The footing is what's important, and the additional concrete with the post is just so the post sits level on the footing and is held in place, but the weight is born fully by the footing. The local inspectors say this is ok, and I think it depends on the area/grading/climate/etc. in terms of how long the posts will last before worrying about rot.

The obvious problem with this method is it makes inspecting the wood near impossible underground, and makes replacing them more difficult down the road, but that's obviously your decision.

Last edited by NewHomeDIYGuy; 03-03-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #190
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All my 6x6s are ground contact treated. If this deck lasts 14 years then I will be happy since I probably won't be living here that long and I have been told that decks typically last about 10-15 years without all the maintenance such as stain/seal etc... I do plan to seal the deck every 2 years at least though. Everything is so expensive these days. Quality goes down but prices go up!

Anyway, as far as that one footer... Will a stand off anchor bolted to the concrete with a 5/8" bolt be sufficient?
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:21 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by NewHomeDIYGuy
Nikeman,

Installing the posts can be done many ways, and you will get different opinions on what people think is correct. I know around here many contractors will do as you first said. Pour the footing (whatever thickness/diameter), let it cure, then come back and mix a bag of concrete, dump a little in the hole, set the 6x6 post in the hole, then pour the rest of the concrete in the hole. The footing is what's important, and the additional concrete with the post is just so the post sits level on the footing and is held in place, but the weight is born fully by the footing. The local inspectors say this is ok, and I think it depends on the area/grading/climate/etc. in terms of how long the footings will last before worrying about rot.

The obvious problem with this method is it makes inspecting the wood near impossible underground, and makes replacing them more difficult down the road, but that's obviously your decision.
My concern with the new concrete on old was that the newer concrete would be able to slide around on the older concrete because of the joint between them. Is that not something to worry about?
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:56 AM   #192
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My concern with the new concrete on old was that the newer concrete would be able to slide around on the older concrete because of the joint between them. Is that not something to worry about?
In theory yes, but if your post is buried, you'll have 2' of dirt sitting on top of it as well which should help prevent it from going anywhere. Unless the post is moving (which it shouldn't), then this shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:48 AM   #193
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All my 6x6s are ground contact treated. If this deck lasts 14 years then I will be happy since I probably won't be living here that long and I have been told that decks typically last about 10-15 years without all the maintenance such as stain/seal etc... I do plan to seal the deck every 2 years at least though. Everything is so expensive these days. Quality goes down but prices go up!

Anyway, as far as that one footer... Will a stand off anchor bolted to the concrete with a 5/8" bolt be sufficient?
"When I see posts like this I wonder if designers of sky scrapers and Bridges say to themselves oh well I will be dead before the building or bridge falls so it will be OK"
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:41 AM   #194
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So why don't you drill a couple holes and add rebar from the existing into the new. That will prevent movement even better.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:43 AM   #195
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"When I see posts like this I wonder if designers of sky scrapers and Bridges say to themselves oh well I will be dead before the building or bridge falls so it will be OK"
No, because they are professional. Big difference between how a pro thinks and a DIY thinks.

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