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Old 05-16-2008, 01:30 PM   #1
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Deck Beams


Building a deck, 12 X 30 attached to the house. It's only going to be 18 in. high. When you take in consideration for the height of the beam, joist and decking, (if my beam is on top of the post), it's getting to be a very short post, if any. Can I go without posts? Somehow mount the beam to the footers? Any info would be appreciated.

Steve

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Old 05-16-2008, 01:38 PM   #2
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Sure! Use sonotube forms to raise the footings up out of the ground, and imbed a USP or Simpson anchor to receive the deck's beams.

Or, you could upset the beams in the floor framing instead of downsetting them. Then it would be posts as usual. I like the first idea personally.

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Old 05-16-2008, 01:58 PM   #3
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Same anchor you would use for a post? I looked on the Simpson website, many anchors for embedding into the footer.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:39 PM   #4
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Deck Beams


I've seen that covered in a Home Depot book I have called Decks 1-2-3. I can scan in a pic if you want. Also one thing I've noticed is that some of the installation methods in the book cannot be done in NY due to code restrictions (and I bought the book in NY). It's probably like that in other states as well... that's just an FYI if you buy the book. I can't scan in the contents of the book though because it's copyright.

The library around me has tons of deck books. If your library is good you should check it out. Again some stuff in the books might be outdated or forbidden by code... FYI
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:56 PM   #5
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Deck Beams


You'll need to get a beam saddle that has two sides that imbeds into the concrete, or fastens onto a j-bolt that is imbedded into the concrete. Many of the most common post bases have four sides, which wouldn't work for your application.

I'm thinking a CBSQ series would be your best bet. They come in 4x and 6x widths, and a depth of about 8-3/4".

4x4 base is CBSQ44-SDS2
4x6 base is CBSQ46-SDS2
6x6 base is CBSQ66-SDS2
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:53 PM   #6
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Deck Beams


Hi again, I scanned in the pics so you have a better idea what I was talking about.
Here's a picture from page 97:



It might just be easier and safer to use a 4x girder-type piece of wood rather than what's shown in the picture.



Here's a picture from page 94:



Note that the shim has to extend at least 2" beyond any metal, and the shim in this pic is on a post cap and not a post base (as you'll need to use).



The connector shown in the pic is ABA44 which is secured to a bolt, either retrofitted after or inserted in the concrete before it sets. If you decide to go the bolt route, check out my posts here.


On retrofitting: It can be done after the concrete sets but it requires drilling and you have to keep the drill really straight or the hole will be much wider than you intended. Also you'll need to buy a really good bit that's 9/16" or 5/8". If you buy 9/16" masonry, at least you have some insurance if you can't keep the drill totally straight: because if the hole measures out at 5/8", it is still acceptable with no reduction in load (this according to Simpson). I bring this up because if you are going to go the bolt route, it's much easier to use a j-bolt before the concrete sets. I've done both recently. It's also cheaper because you don't have to buy epoxy, the right masonry bit, the retrofit bolt, a nylon brush, a blow out bulb... you get the idea!
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Deck Beams-beam_on_footing.jpg   Deck Beams-shim.jpg  
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:02 PM   #7
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Deck Beams


Thanks, great info. Here's another problem/situation. 10 foot of my 30 foot span is my concrete patio At first thought I was going out further, but changed). My piers will be the same height as the patio, so what do I use to secure the beam to the patio?
Thanks
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:07 PM   #8
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Deck Beams


Unless you don't have winter (its Kentucky...you do... or frostline requirements where you live, you can't bear structural portions of the deck on a patio slab. Not a good idea. You need to break out the slab and dig frost piers to get good bearing for the deck. Putting it on the slab will only lead to a cracked patio and a deck that heaves and settles with the elements. I would imagine that KY has a 36" frost depth from the codebook, but you need to check with the local jurisdiction.

Also, I'd suggest using a bracket similar to what DECK put in his pictures, although taller and heavier since it needs to resist the beam's propencity to lay down. Stick with the post base product codes I gave you.

Last edited by Termite; 05-19-2008 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:08 PM   #9
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Was afraid of that. Looks like I'll make it 13x30 now, save some labor tearing out concrete. Just finished that a few months ago roughing in my bath downstairs! Frostline here in Ky is 30 in. by the way. How detailed of a drawing is my building insp going to want? I used Lowes deck designer, kind of basic, but really couldn't get everything I wanted on it. Kept telling me that I need two double 2x10 beams. I think I can get away with one double 2x10 beam, since I'm right on the piers with no post, 12" cantilever and 2x8 joists. Deck height will only be 18". What do you think?
Thanks.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:59 PM   #10
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Deck Beams


I don't have my span charts available to me right now, but a 2x10 will go about 15' at 16" oc. A 2x8 at 12' (13' minus the 1' cantilever) will be a little bit spongy I think, but it will probably work just fine. If it were mine, I think I'd add the beam down the middle just to make it rock solid.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:28 AM   #11
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But will the one beam pass an inspection?
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:43 AM   #12
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I will have to tear out my patio now if I put in two beams.
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:53 AM   #13
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Deck Beams


Run one beam at 11' away from the house and cantilever your joists 2' to make 13' - you won't have to mess with the concrete patio. 2x8 select structural southern pine (treated) joists should work at 16" o.c. for a 60 psf load (50 live, 10 dead) - you can check this span table.

Hint, ask your inspector/city planning office what they want to see. If they're inspecting it, don't you have to present plans to them showing spans/joist sizes/beam sizes/post locations, etc in order to get a permit approval?

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Old 05-21-2008, 07:02 AM   #14
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Deck Beams


Yep, just turned it in yesterday. The patio is 12 ft off the house. I'm going with the one beam 10 feet off the house, two foot cantilever and my piers (5 total)will be 6 1/2 feet apart except at the patio where it will be 11 ft apart(span the 10 ft patio, so I don't have to tear out any). Not sure if it will fly.

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