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Old 06-16-2012, 11:23 AM   #16
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Dead Loads / Struct. Eng


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An engineer does this for a living. What makes you think you know more than they do and come on a Diy'er forum and get the answers? What makes you think that you will understand what they do overnight?

Why are you doing the job if money is extremely tight and not want to do it the right way and ask for professional help? Coming to a DIY'er forum and asking free structural advice is comforting and smart to you and makes you feel safe? Couple hundred dollars isn't going to break you since you can afford to do this type of job.
You don't know me, you don't know who I am, or where I am from, or my story. If you want to pass judgement on people for their situations and circumstances, you can live your life on a pedestal; things are not as simple as you believe.

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Old 06-16-2012, 11:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola

An engineer does this for a living. What makes you think you know more than they do and come on a Diy'er forum and get the answers? What makes you think that you will understand what they do overnight?

Why are you doing the job if money is extremely tight and not want to do it the right way and ask for professional help? Coming to a DIY'er forum and asking free structural advice is comforting and smart to you and makes you feel safe? Couple hundred dollars isn't going to break you since you can afford to do this type of job.
Exactly!
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:25 AM   #18
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assuming they are reasonably regular, a joist in a system is a joist in the system, and dead load capacities stack? So I have 10 joists inside 80 inches, thats like having it 8 inches on centre?
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:28 AM   #19
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Ask yourself this; does your home insurer care more about what you believe you know or can learn versus what a certified structural engineer who does this for a living says? We ARE trying to help by guiding you in the right direction. I build for a living and I am an engineer by degree, but I still ask the right guy when I need to and value his/her services.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ghengisconrad View Post
cool, so if it doesn't matter the spacing (assuming they are reasonably regular), a joist in a system is a joist in the system, and dead load capacities stack? So I have 10 joists inside 80 inches, thats like having it 8 inches on centre?
try out this link http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.html

it should help you understand
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:30 AM   #21
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You don't know me, you don't know who I am, or where I am from, or my story. If you want to pass judgement on people for their situations and circumstances, you can live your life on a pedestal; things are not as simple as you believe.
I'm sorry I got upset.

My situation, is that I was defrauded on the sale of this home. The condition was intentionally covered up, and due to circumstances involving the age of the sellers, my lawyer informed me I had no legal recourse that would result in a benefit to me.

I have had to quit my regular 9-5 job and build this house myself, starting from nothing. I was a SQL data analyst before this disaster. The whole house must be gutted and replaced. This walk in shower was a hair brained idea from looooooong before I knew what the f#(*( I was doing at all.

I have not come across a single 'professional' for whom I can have anything I call respect for the work they do for the money they charge.

Comprehension is my specialty. I have the materials already; and am in the situation I am in. It sucks, I know. Its stupid. I know. My life is a hell, this is for certain. I have a whole second half of a house to f*#(*(#$ build after this, and would like to save my pennys if at all possible. If the inspector says its 'fine', then it probably is, but I"d like to fI*(*(# understand/KNOW that it is so.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:34 AM   #22
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assuming they are reasonably regular, a joist in a system is a joist in the system, and dead load capacities stack? So I have 10 joists inside 80 inches, thats like having it 8 inches on centre?
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengisconrad View Post
You don't know me, you don't know who I am, or where I am from, or my story. If you want to pass judgement on people for their situations and circumstances, you can live your life on a pedestal; things are not as simple as you believe.
I don't have to know you to figure out that you are not being smart about doing the right thing. You could be building this for a handicap person or building it because you have an addition to the family and need another bathroom. Regardless, you should be doing the right thing and asking for professional structural help. Not coming to a Diy'er forum and asking because you think you know more than a professional. Be smart and do the right thing!!
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:35 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ghengisconrad View Post
cool, so if it doesn't matter the spacing (assuming they are reasonably regular), a joist in a system is a joist in the system, and dead load capacities stack? So I have 10 joists inside 80 inches, thats like having it 8 inches on centre?
If you can work out what load one joist can safely carry (and remember it's not just maximum allowable stress, but consider deflection as well), then if the same-size joist is part of a system of joists, you are allowed to increase the maximum allowable load slightly. This is called a load-sharing arrangement, and applies particularly to floor joists. Where I am we can multiply the max. load by 1.1 for multiple joists, but it may be slightly different in your jurisdiction.

Last edited by tony.g; 06-16-2012 at 11:36 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengisconrad

I'm sorry I got upset.

My situation, is that I was defrauded on the sale of this home. The condition was intentionally covered up, and due to circumstances involving the age of the sellers, my lawyer informed me I had no legal recourse that would result in a benefit to me.

I have had to quit my regular 9-5 job and build this house myself, starting from nothing. I was a SQL data analyst before this disaster. The whole house must be gutted and replaced. This walk in shower was a hair brained idea from looooooong before I knew what the f#(*( I was doing at all.

I have not come across a single 'professional' for whom I can have anything I call respect for the work they do for the money they charge.

Comprehension is my specialty. I have the materials already; and am in the situation I am in. It sucks, I know. Its stupid. I know. My life is a hell, this is for certain. I have a whole second half of a house to f*#(*(#$ build after this, and would like to save my pennys if at all possible. If the inspector says its 'fine', then it probably is, but I"d like to fI*(*(# understand/KNOW that it is so.
Get recommendations from friends or neighbors if you can. Sounds like a sucky situation and perhaps if the inspector says fine then just move on to the next challenge ... I am also from a very technical background but sometimes I just have to tell myself I really don't need to know as I don't have time for everything.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:46 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengisconrad View Post
assuming they are reasonably regular, a joist in a system is a joist in the system, and dead load capacities stack? So I have 10 joists inside 80 inches, thats like having it 8 inches on centre?

if the framing was 16" centers ( normal) then you would have 4 joists in the open floor span so I would say that 10 joists is plenty adequate. if some of the joists you show in the diagram were nailed together( doubled) then it would be like having a 4" beam span the floor distance.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:03 PM   #27
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if the framing was 16" centers ( normal) then you would have 4 joists in the open floor span so I would say that 10 joists is plenty adequate. if some of the joists you show in the diagram were nailed together( doubled) then it would be like having a 4" beam span the floor distance.
Not only are they nailed together, but because I'm gutting the whole damn house, my plan is to give them another stud on the load bearing wall to tie into, so its extra tied in....

also, not written here, is that I have bridged the living day lights out of all these joists.

Its just... mynah... I don't want to add more tragedy to tragedy. Maybe I will just call a structural engineer and be done with it.... If he o.k.s the deadload, does tat mean he has an insurance that would thenceforth cover me?


hmmmm.... will make phone calls... still... must.... encapsulate.... big... picture!!!!

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Old 06-16-2012, 02:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ghengisconrad View Post
assuming they are reasonably regular, a joist in a system is a joist in the system, and dead load capacities stack? So I have 10 joists inside 80 inches, thats like having it 8 inches on centre?
First 10 joist in 80 inches OC is 8.9" spacing. If you look at the extreme case 5 joist together 66.5" space then 5 more joists, it is obvious they won't support much weight and if they are equally spaced they support a lot of weight. Understanding the dynamics of the weight distribution curve requires an experienced ________________.

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I worked it out, and my deadload appears to be about 37 psf, and my live load is about 61 psf so... mynah.....
With a shower I don't see any reason to use a live load value other than the perscriptive code values. If your deadload is 37 psf, then your estimating the weight of the shower to be about 3000 lbs. Is that right? Or is your maximum deadload 37 psf under the shower walls or heaviest point?
To calculate joist load with varying space between joists use the widest spacing. When you calculate joist loads you are actually calculating the load on one joist, then buying a bunch of similar joists. In your case you have a non-uniformly distributed heavy load, so you may have to perform additional calculations.
You did not mention the maximum depth for the joist that will fit. 40 psf deadload with #2 SPF may use 2 x 10 at 8" OC or double 2 x 10 16" OC. Obviously this is under a shower so all that plumbing adds additional complications.
Your beam still needs to be calculated. This may require a non-uniform load distribution calculation, by a _________________. The load may be such that you can't just assume a standard 2 x 4 wall is sufficient to carry the weight.
BTW, please use a better span calculator then eHow. They over simplify things by assuming standards cases and can get you in to trouble when you get into extraordinary cases like yours.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:39 PM   #29
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If he o.k.s the deadload, does tat mean he has an insurance that would thenceforth cover me?
No he has insurance that protects him. Which if all he does is sign off on the deadload won't do you squat.

You need to have him sign and stamp a detailed plan, follow the plan exactly (including permit and following codes), eliminate other cause such as defective materials and show that the SE failed in some manner to carry out his duty (wrong material recommendation, bad calculation, invalid and unreasonable assumption).
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:41 PM   #30
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Also want to mention, get yellow pine to sister with as it is a stronger wood than standard whitewood,
this is a slight highjack of the OP, but after reading the above comment thought I should post as I'm not sure if everyone is aware that as of June 1, 2012 southern pine #2, 2" to 4" width by 2" to 4" depth framing members have been downgraded about 30% in load carrying capacity. They are currently testing larger size framing members to see if they will be downgraded also.

Check out this post on another forum that goes into more detail with links to the Southern Pine Inspection Bureau and other reference sources including revised span tables.

http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showt...-Southern-No-2

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