Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-19-2012, 08:08 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 9
Share |
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


I want to move a toilet in a bathroom on the 2nd floor. The bathroom is built like a hallway with the toilet in the middle. The vanity is at one end and the bath at the other. A Jack 'n' Jill bath with a door at both ends and totally wasted space. Anyway, I want to move the toilet about 45 inches. The move will be perpendicular to the joists. The toilet sits against an outside wall, the new location will be along the same wall. The plumbing currently comes up under the toilet.

Here is what I want to do. I would like to cut the joists approximately 1 foot from the wall and again about 1 foot from that further into the room. This will give me a channel to place the waste drain for the toilet. Once the joists are cut, I visualize putting a double header on the ends on both sides and securing that to the adjacent uncut joists on either end. One thing worth mentioning, there is a closet beneath on the first floor beneath most of the area where the joists will be cut. I am thinking the walls of the closet would add support to the header as well as supporting the longer end of the cut joist.
this is a graphic, sort of anyway.

Current Proposed
<--------------------------->
<--------------------------> <--------------xx[ xx ]xx---->
<--------------------------> <--------------xx[ xx ]xx---->
XXXXXX Toilet <----------------[ ]------>
XXXXXX <----------------[ ]------>
<---------------------------> Channel with headers


Last edited by Scuba_any_time; 03-19-2012 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Graphic added
Scuba_any_time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 08:21 PM   #2
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 21,616
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


How big are the Joists---Is there a reason you would not drill a hole? that is the common way--

__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 08:24 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 9
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


truthfully, not sure what size the joists are, probably 2x8 or maybe 2x10. House was self built by previous owners. Drilling was an option, but for a 3 or 4 inch pipe i would have to 2x10 or 2x12 minimum. thought this option offered more stability and greater strength.
Scuba_any_time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 08:30 PM   #4
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 21,616
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Need pictures---I can't picture what you are doing exactly----I've moved many a toilet--and others here have,too.

Better description or pictures will help---Mike---
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:41 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 9
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


oh'mike,
here are some crude drawings in mspaint. I am interested in the idea of cutting holes though. I will get some dimensions on the joists soon. Meanwhile, here are the drawings. nothing to scale of course.

thanks for any help
steven
Attached Thumbnails
Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing-proposed.jpg   Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing-existing.jpg  
Scuba_any_time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 04:15 PM   #6
EIT/DIY'er
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Western NY
Posts: 51
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Something along the lines of:



???
Lattimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 09:52 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 9
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Lattimer, that is exactly what I am looking to do. It seems reasonable, but new to me so I wasnt sure of it. My joists from the wall side may only be about 12". I figured to cut an opening about 12" wide to allow for (2) 2Xs as headers on each side. Like I said in my original, rambling post, most of the joists sit on top of a closet wall and the headers will rest on the adjacent walls at both ends.

So I take it then that this is do-able. What about oh'mike's suggestion about drilling holes? Is it better? I can see where it might be easier than cutting the joists, but I would have to piece the plumbing back in since a single run of 4 or 5 feet could not be leveraged in.
Scuba_any_time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 12:29 PM   #8
EIT/DIY'er
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Western NY
Posts: 51
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time View Post
Lattimer, that is exactly what I am looking to do. It seems reasonable, but new to me so I wasnt sure of it. My joists from the wall side may only be about 12". I figured to cut an opening about 12" wide to allow for (2) 2Xs as headers on each side. Like I said in my original, rambling post, most of the joists sit on top of a closet wall and the headers will rest on the adjacent walls at both ends.

So I take it then that this is do-able. What about oh'mike's suggestion about drilling holes? Is it better? I can see where it might be easier than cutting the joists, but I would have to piece the plumbing back in since a single run of 4 or 5 feet could not be leveraged in.
My gut says you would have a much easier time by drilling and pieceing in your drain pipe.

Keep in mind that, based on your drawing, you would now have 2 joists carrying the load of 5. That may well require a deeper joist, which would throw everything out of whack. Assuming you could get away with sistering additional joists of the same depth, you would still have to deal with proper fastening of the sistered joists along the full length as well as getting proper bearing of the sistered joists. Additionally, temporary support would be required between the time the joists had been cut and the time you had everything buttoned up.

On top of that, you likely have all of the tools required to cut the joists as you propose...if you drill joists for the pipe, you'd likely be able to justify buying a cool new toy....er, tool, like a 1/2" right angle drill, assuming you don't already have one.
Lattimer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lattimer For This Useful Post:
Scuba_any_time (03-23-2012)
Old 03-23-2012, 01:10 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 9
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Sounds like drilling is the way to go. I mean, who can resist a new toy, i mean tool.
Scuba_any_time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 01:20 PM   #10
EIT/DIY'er
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Western NY
Posts: 51
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time View Post
Sounds like drilling is the way to go. I mean, who can resist a new toy, i mean tool.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/MIL...FcRM4AodDm7y0A




hold on tight!


Forgot to mention....be sure to check your building codes to find the maximum allowable hole size for your particular conditions.
Lattimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 02:44 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 219
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time View Post
Sounds like drilling is the way to go. I mean, who can resist a new toy, i mean tool.
This is not an easy job by any means. It's hard enough to do with 2" let alone 3". Your joists may only be 12" apart which will make the drilling difficult. Then there is the task of feeding the pipe through. I've never been a fan of putting the pipe in 12" sections and using couplings. Too many possible failure points, however, it's done all the time and works most of the time.

Question: How stupid would a bulkhead look in the room below?
psilva8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 04:42 PM   #12
Just a DIY guy
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 297
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


I like psilva's bulkhead idea, you avoid all structural issues, and it's "mostly" in a closet.

But if you drill, don't forget to account for drain slope when you lay out the holes.

Last edited by M3 Pete; 03-23-2012 at 04:45 PM.
M3 Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 05:09 PM   #13
Residential Designer
 
AndyGump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County CA.
Posts: 1,287
Send a message via Skype™ to AndyGump
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


This may help you decide, IRC 2009.

Andy.
Attached Thumbnails
Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing-notching.jpg  
__________________
Residential Drafter/Designer
www.draftinginoc.com
AndyGump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2012, 09:03 AM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 9
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Thanks for all the wonderful information everyone.
psilva8, I agree with you about the couplings, I have always seen each coupling as an opportunity for a leak even though the bond of the glued joint is like a weld and supposed to be stronger than the individual pieces. Still, I am thinking this may be the best way to go.

By bulkhead, are you referring to an enclosure below the ceiling downstairs? The wife would not be happy with that option. If that isnt what you are talking about please let me know, I am open to all options.

The drill is way coo by the way!
Scuba_any_time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2012, 09:29 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 219
Default

Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time View Post
Thanks for all the wonderful information everyone.
psilva8, I agree with you about the couplings, I have always seen each coupling as an opportunity for a leak even though the bond of the glued joint is like a weld and supposed to be stronger than the individual pieces. Still, I am thinking this may be the best way to go.

By bulkhead, are you referring to an enclosure below the ceiling downstairs? The wife would not be happy with that option. If that isnt what you are talking about please let me know, I am open to all options.

The drill is way coo by the way!
Yeah that's what I mean by putting ina bulkhead. I'm not the biggest fan of them, but when they are necessary I think it is important to make them look as if they are meant to be there, not just there to cover something up. For example, putting some recessed lighting in them or using some cool moldings. Sometimes they are hard to avoid.

Good luck.

psilva8 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to psilva8 For This Useful Post:
Scuba_any_time (03-25-2012)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.