Cutting and supporting floor joist to reposition plumbing

Scuba_any_time · 03-19-2012, 09:08 PM

I want to move a toilet in a bathroom on the 2nd floor. The bathroom is built like a hallway with the toilet in the middle. The vanity is at one end and the bath at the other. A Jack 'n' Jill bath with a door at both ends and totally wasted space. Anyway, I want to move the toilet about 45 inches. The move will be perpendicular to the joists. The toilet sits against an outside wall, the new location will be along the same wall. The plumbing currently comes up under the toilet.

Here is what I want to do. I would like to cut the joists approximately 1 foot from the wall and again about 1 foot from that further into the room. This will give me a channel to place the waste drain for the toilet. Once the joists are cut, I visualize putting a double header on the ends on both sides and securing that to the adjacent uncut joists on either end. One thing worth mentioning, there is a closet beneath on the first floor beneath most of the area where the joists will be cut. I am thinking the walls of the closet would add support to the header as well as supporting the longer end of the cut joist.
this is a graphic, sort of anyway.

Current Proposed
<--------------------------->
<--------------------------> <--------------xx[ xx ]xx---->
<--------------------------> <--------------xx[ xx ]xx---->
XXXXXX Toilet <----------------[ ]------>
XXXXXX <----------------[ ]------>
<---------------------------> Channel with headers

**oh'mike** · 03-19-2012, 09:21 PM

How big are the Joists---Is there a reason you would not drill a hole? that is the common way--

Scuba_any_time · 03-19-2012, 09:24 PM

truthfully, not sure what size the joists are, probably 2x8 or maybe 2x10. House was self built by previous owners. Drilling was an option, but for a 3 or 4 inch pipe i would have to 2x10 or 2x12 minimum. thought this option offered more stability and greater strength.

**oh'mike** · 03-19-2012, 09:30 PM

Need pictures---I can't picture what you are doing exactly----I've moved many a toilet--and others here have,too.

Better description or pictures will help---Mike---

Scuba_any_time · 03-22-2012, 02:41 PM

oh'mike,
here are some crude drawings in mspaint. I am interested in the idea of cutting holes though. I will get some dimensions on the joists soon. Meanwhile, here are the drawings. nothing to scale of course.

thanks for any help
steven

Lattimer · 03-22-2012, 05:15 PM

Something along the lines of:

???

Scuba_any_time · 03-23-2012, 10:52 AM

Lattimer, that is exactly what I am looking to do. It seems reasonable, but new to me so I wasnt sure of it. My joists from the wall side may only be about 12". I figured to cut an opening about 12" wide to allow for (2) 2Xs as headers on each side. Like I said in my original, rambling post, most of the joists sit on top of a closet wall and the headers will rest on the adjacent walls at both ends.

So I take it then that this is do-able. What about oh'mike's suggestion about drilling holes? Is it better? I can see where it might be easier than cutting the joists, but I would have to piece the plumbing back in since a single run of 4 or 5 feet could not be leveraged in.

Lattimer · 03-23-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time

Lattimer, that is exactly what I am looking to do. It seems reasonable, but new to me so I wasnt sure of it. My joists from the wall side may only be about 12". I figured to cut an opening about 12" wide to allow for (2) 2Xs as headers on each side. Like I said in my original, rambling post, most of the joists sit on top of a closet wall and the headers will rest on the adjacent walls at both ends.

So I take it then that this is do-able. What about oh'mike's suggestion about drilling holes? Is it better? I can see where it might be easier than cutting the joists, but I would have to piece the plumbing back in since a single run of 4 or 5 feet could not be leveraged in.

My gut says you would have a much easier time by drilling and pieceing in your drain pipe.

Keep in mind that, based on your drawing, you would now have 2 joists carrying the load of 5. That may well require a deeper joist, which would throw everything out of whack. Assuming you could get away with sistering additional joists of the same depth, you would still have to deal with proper fastening of the sistered joists along the full length as well as getting proper bearing of the sistered joists. Additionally, temporary support would be required between the time the joists had been cut and the time you had everything buttoned up.

On top of that, you likely have all of the tools required to cut the joists as you propose...if you drill joists for the pipe, you'd likely be able to justify buying a cool new toy....er, tool, like a 1/2" right angle drill, assuming you don't already have one.

Scuba_any_time · 03-23-2012, 02:10 PM

Sounds like drilling is the way to go. I mean, who can resist a new toy, i mean tool.

Lattimer · 03-23-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time

Sounds like drilling is the way to go. I mean, who can resist a new toy, i mean tool.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/MIL...FcRM4AodDm7y0A

hold on tight!

Forgot to mention....be sure to check your building codes to find the maximum allowable hole size for your particular conditions.

psilva8 · 03-23-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time

Sounds like drilling is the way to go. I mean, who can resist a new toy, i mean tool.

This is not an easy job by any means. It's hard enough to do with 2" let alone 3". Your joists may only be 12" apart which will make the drilling difficult. Then there is the task of feeding the pipe through. I've never been a fan of putting the pipe in 12" sections and using couplings. Too many possible failure points, however, it's done all the time and works most of the time.

Question: How stupid would a bulkhead look in the room below?

M3 Pete · 03-23-2012, 05:42 PM

I like psilva's bulkhead idea, you avoid all structural issues, and it's "mostly" in a closet.

But if you drill, don't forget to account for drain slope when you lay out the holes.

AndyGump · 03-23-2012, 06:09 PM

This may help you decide, IRC 2009.

Andy.

Scuba_any_time · 03-24-2012, 10:03 AM

Thanks for all the wonderful information everyone.
psilva8, I agree with you about the couplings, I have always seen each coupling as an opportunity for a leak even though the bond of the glued joint is like a weld and supposed to be stronger than the individual pieces. Still, I am thinking this may be the best way to go.

By bulkhead, are you referring to an enclosure below the ceiling downstairs? The wife would not be happy with that option. If that isnt what you are talking about please let me know, I am open to all options.

The drill is way coo by the way!

psilva8 · 03-24-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_any_time

Thanks for all the wonderful information everyone.
psilva8, I agree with you about the couplings, I have always seen each coupling as an opportunity for a leak even though the bond of the glued joint is like a weld and supposed to be stronger than the individual pieces. Still, I am thinking this may be the best way to go.

By bulkhead, are you referring to an enclosure below the ceiling downstairs? The wife would not be happy with that option. If that isnt what you are talking about please let me know, I am open to all options.

The drill is way coo by the way!

Yeah that's what I mean by putting ina bulkhead. I'm not the biggest fan of them, but when they are necessary I think it is important to make them look as if they are meant to be there, not just there to cover something up. For example, putting some recessed lighting in them or using some cool moldings. Sometimes they are hard to avoid.

Good luck.