Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-20-2010, 11:07 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Share |
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


I've read the building code and realize what I'm about to do won't meet code, but I'm weighing my options and would appreciate any advice you can pass my way. I will be moving a second story toilet across 4 joists, the joists are 10" (9 1/2") on 16" centers. Bathtub and shower will remain on untouched joists.

The 4" hole will be much bigger than what code allows, so what I'm looking for is:

1. should I put the holes near the center of the span, or near the ends?
2. how should I add support to these joists? glue/nail 2x10's on each side and then cut the holes, or fabricate metal panels to attach above and below the holes?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Of course, if your opinion is that I'm an idiot for cutting joists against code, then plse let me know that as well (better to be told I'm an idiot by strangers, than have my wife point it out when the ceiling starts to sag

Many thanks,
DB

red_cabby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2010, 11:16 PM   #2
Old School
 
Willie T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond them.
Posts: 3,634
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Do you suppose there was actually a reason they put that restriction in the codes? I won't judge your mental state, but I will ask why you would want to violate a requirement meant to keep your house free from problems.

If you heard you shouldn't pour milk in your truck's gas tank, would you ask around to see if you can get away with it?

__________________
"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Willie T

Last edited by Willie T; 06-20-2010 at 11:18 PM.
Willie T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2010, 11:21 PM   #3
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Blog Entries: 7
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


You asked for it.

Yes, you're an idiot.

That being said (and only because you asked for a stranger to do it, I saved your wife the effort ) you have to come up with another plan.
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2010, 05:03 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: hilton head & atlanta
Posts: 2,995
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


you can't get 5gal of wtr into a 4gal bkt,,, seems unanimous so far - you're an idiot from here, too
__________________

if you hear it from a guy in the apron store, be VERY suspicious the mtl/method will work,,, when it time to build something together, they won't answer phones NOR help
itsreallyconc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2010, 07:41 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Thanks for the "idiot" votes, how bout:

-I only need a 3.5" hole for a toilet
-the joist is 9.5" so according to the attachment I would be very close to meeting code (the size of the 10" joist on the attachment is 9.25", with a 3 1/8" hole allowance; my joist is 9.5" and I want to put a 3.5" hole)...

Given this new info that I rec'd from the Terry Love forum, how would you construction people recommend I beef up my joists?

Many Thanks,
DB
Attached Files
File Type: pdf joist holes.pdf (57.6 KB, 206 views)
red_cabby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2010, 07:49 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: hilton head & atlanta
Posts: 2,995
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


ONLY way i'd know is building a ' fitch beam ' - either steel plates OR aircraft grade alum

' close ' doesn't help much 'cept in horseshoes & battle firefights
__________________

if you hear it from a guy in the apron store, be VERY suspicious the mtl/method will work,,, when it time to build something together, they won't answer phones NOR help
itsreallyconc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2010, 07:52 AM   #7
Framing Contractor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Caldwell, NJ
Posts: 1,758
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by red_cabby View Post
Thanks for the "idiot" votes, how bout:

-I only need a 3.5" hole for a toilet
-the joist is 9.5" so according to the attachment I would be very close to meeting code (the size of the 10" joist on the attachment is 9.25", with a 3 1/8" hole allowance; my joist is 9.5" and I want to put a 3.5" hole)...

Given this new info that I rec'd from the Terry Love forum, how would you construction people recommend I beef up my joists?

Many Thanks,
DB
Why don't you ask your building inspector when you file for the permits.
__________________
Joe Carola
Joe Carola is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Joe Carola For This Useful Post:
kwikfishron (06-21-2010)
Old 06-21-2010, 09:08 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW of D.C.
Posts: 5,990
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by red_cabby View Post
I will be moving a second story toilet across 4 joists, the joists are 10" (9 1/2") on 16" centers. Bathtub and shower will remain on untouched joists.

The 4" hole will be much bigger than what code allows, so what I'm looking for is:

I put the holes near the center of the span, or near the ends?
Near the ends, all else being equal.

Post photos and diagrams of what you want to do, before and after - there may be a way to keep everybody happy.

Without researching it, one option might be to use a smaller pipe and a sewage pump. Another would be to bolt a steel strap truss structure onto both sides of the existing joists; trusses are mostly empty space and steel is about 20x stronger than wood.

Saying you're not going to meet code is like waving a red flag. (To your credit) you are not a politician or a diplomat or a spin doctor.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 06-21-2010 at 09:23 AM.
Yoyizit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2010, 09:19 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 167
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by red_cabby View Post
I've read the building code and realize what I'm about to do won't meet code, but I'm weighing my options and would appreciate any advice you can pass my way. I will be moving a second story toilet across 4 joists, the joists are 10" (9 1/2") on 16" centers. Bathtub and shower will remain on untouched joists.

The 4" hole will be much bigger than what code allows, so what I'm looking for is:

1. should I put the holes near the center of the span, or near the ends?
2. how should I add support to these joists? glue/nail 2x10's on each side and then cut the holes, or fabricate metal panels to attach above and below the holes?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Of course, if your opinion is that I'm an idiot for cutting joists against code, then plse let me know that as well (better to be told I'm an idiot by strangers, than have my wife point it out when the ceiling starts to sag

Many thanks,
DB
I agree, don't just say you are not going to meet code, I am not sure you understand the scope of problems that this can cause.

Either way post up pics.

How do you plan on maintaining pitch through the joists? 4 of them at that. Is there no way to move the pipe below the joists and then run up to be between the joists?
slickgt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2010, 09:47 AM   #10
Chicago, IL
 
Michael Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,037
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Give Metwood a call, if allowed by your local AHJ, they may have a engineered joist reinforcement product which will solve your problem.



http://www.metwood.com/products/reinforcer

(For the record, I have no business relationship of any kind with Metwood.)

____________________
I’m paid to be
suspicious…
__________________
Home Inspections, Infrared (Thermal Imaging) Leak Identification and Inspection Services, Roof, Attic, Building, Basement and Foundation Moisture Intrusion and Water Leak Inspections, Troubled Building Consultations - Serving Chicago and Suburbs http://paragoninspects.com/

Last edited by Michael Thomas; 06-21-2010 at 04:20 PM.
Michael Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Michael Thomas For This Useful Post:
DangerMouse (06-22-2010), Yoyizit (06-21-2010)
Old 06-21-2010, 10:22 AM   #11
Old School
 
Willie T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Petersburg, FL Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond them.
Posts: 3,634
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


If you can handle the looks of a small 'drop-down' soffit at the edge of your wall, what about running to the wall with the pipe, turning down beneath the joists, then running along the wall to where you need to go. Afterward, box in that wall run with a small soffit.

This way, you cut no joists at all.
__________________
"True eloquence consists in saying all that is necessary, and only that which is."
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
Willie T
Willie T is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Willie T For This Useful Post:
Leah Frances (06-21-2010)
Old 06-21-2010, 10:47 AM   #12
Handyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oakville, Ont, Canada
Posts: 796
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


I like that Metwood brace. Maybe not for 4 joists but in one it could save a lot of time.
canadaclub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2010, 11:49 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 34
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Hi

Check out 'www.saniflo.com'
This may get over your problem - only real issue is with noise generated when the pump is running!

Regards
hereslookingatU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2010, 06:42 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 183
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Your new water closet flange and elbo will dictate where pipe will go. If you have a small bathroom and if you have manufactured roof trusses that go from outside wall to outside wall , and if you have the supporting walls on the first floor to support this idea , you may just want to reverse the floor joists in the bathroom area only. I have swung walls from roof trusses many times replacing termite damaged floor joists. As a reminder in moving the comode that far you will need to consider a new vent also as 3 feet is the max from comode opening. Okay boys hammer away as I just may be nuts.
bernieb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2010, 08:05 AM   #15
Chicago, IL
 
Michael Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,037
Default

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieb View Post
I have swung walls from roof trusses many times replacing termite damaged floor joists. As a reminder in moving the comode that far you will need to consider a new vent also as 3 feet is the max from comode opening. Okay boys hammer away as I just may be nuts.
I'm a bit unclear on what you are suggesting, do you have a picture or diagram?

Thanks

__________________
Home Inspections, Infrared (Thermal Imaging) Leak Identification and Inspection Services, Roof, Attic, Building, Basement and Foundation Moisture Intrusion and Water Leak Inspections, Troubled Building Consultations - Serving Chicago and Suburbs http://paragoninspects.com/
Michael Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help caulking and filling nail holes in my trim hadees Painting 13 11-25-2012 10:32 PM
Alternatives for fixing holes in tile roof felt Squash_Pro Roofing/Siding 4 05-13-2010 06:20 PM
Best way to patch 40 4" round holes? SteveGolden Drywall & Plaster 13 05-05-2010 02:48 PM
Cutting holes in plastic J-Box jamiedolan Electrical 15 02-25-2009 05:58 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.