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-   -   cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/cutting-4-holes-10-floor-joist-74231/)

red_cabby 06-21-2010 12:07 AM

cutting 4" holes in 10" floor joist
 
I've read the building code and realize what I'm about to do won't meet code, but I'm weighing my options and would appreciate any advice you can pass my way. I will be moving a second story toilet across 4 joists, the joists are 10" (9 1/2") on 16" centers. Bathtub and shower will remain on untouched joists.

The 4" hole will be much bigger than what code allows, so what I'm looking for is:

1. should I put the holes near the center of the span, or near the ends?
2. how should I add support to these joists? glue/nail 2x10's on each side and then cut the holes, or fabricate metal panels to attach above and below the holes?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Of course, if your opinion is that I'm an idiot for cutting joists against code, then plse let me know that as well (better to be told I'm an idiot by strangers, than have my wife point it out when the ceiling starts to saghttp://www.terrylove.com/forums/imag...lies/smile.gif

Many thanks,
DB

Willie T 06-21-2010 12:16 AM

Do you suppose there was actually a reason they put that restriction in the codes? I won't judge your mental state, but I will ask why you would want to violate a requirement meant to keep your house free from problems.

If you heard you shouldn't pour milk in your truck's gas tank, would you ask around to see if you can get away with it?

Leah Frances 06-21-2010 12:21 AM

You asked for it.

Yes, you're an idiot.

That being said (and only because you asked for a stranger to do it, I saved your wife the effort :wink:) you have to come up with another plan.

stadry 06-21-2010 06:03 AM

you can't get 5gal of wtr into a 4gal bkt,,, seems unanimous so far - you're an idiot from here, too :laughing:

red_cabby 06-21-2010 08:41 AM

ok, something constructive
 
1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for the "idiot" votes, how bout:

-I only need a 3.5" hole for a toilet
-the joist is 9.5" so according to the attachment I would be very close to meeting code (the size of the 10" joist on the attachment is 9.25", with a 3 1/8" hole allowance; my joist is 9.5" and I want to put a 3.5" hole)...

Given this new info that I rec'd from the Terry Love forum, how would you construction people recommend I beef up my joists?

Many Thanks,
DB

stadry 06-21-2010 08:49 AM

ONLY way i'd know is building a ' fitch beam ' - either steel plates OR aircraft grade alum

' close ' doesn't help much 'cept in horseshoes & battle firefights :laughing:

Joe Carola 06-21-2010 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_cabby (Post 459252)
Thanks for the "idiot" votes, how bout:

-I only need a 3.5" hole for a toilet
-the joist is 9.5" so according to the attachment I would be very close to meeting code (the size of the 10" joist on the attachment is 9.25", with a 3 1/8" hole allowance; my joist is 9.5" and I want to put a 3.5" hole)...

Given this new info that I rec'd from the Terry Love forum, how would you construction people recommend I beef up my joists?

Many Thanks,
DB

Why don't you ask your building inspector when you file for the permits.

Yoyizit 06-21-2010 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_cabby (Post 459177)
I will be moving a second story toilet across 4 joists, the joists are 10" (9 1/2") on 16" centers. Bathtub and shower will remain on untouched joists.

The 4" hole will be much bigger than what code allows, so what I'm looking for is:

I put the holes near the center of the span, or near the ends?

Near the ends, all else being equal.

Post photos and diagrams of what you want to do, before and after - there may be a way to keep everybody happy.

Without researching it, one option might be to use a smaller pipe and a sewage pump. Another would be to bolt a steel strap truss structure onto both sides of the existing joists; trusses are mostly empty space and steel is about 20x stronger than wood.

Saying you're not going to meet code is like waving a red flag. (To your credit) you are not a politician or a diplomat or a spin doctor.

slickgt1 06-21-2010 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_cabby (Post 459177)
I've read the building code and realize what I'm about to do won't meet code, but I'm weighing my options and would appreciate any advice you can pass my way. I will be moving a second story toilet across 4 joists, the joists are 10" (9 1/2") on 16" centers. Bathtub and shower will remain on untouched joists.

The 4" hole will be much bigger than what code allows, so what I'm looking for is:

1. should I put the holes near the center of the span, or near the ends?
2. how should I add support to these joists? glue/nail 2x10's on each side and then cut the holes, or fabricate metal panels to attach above and below the holes?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Of course, if your opinion is that I'm an idiot for cutting joists against code, then plse let me know that as well (better to be told I'm an idiot by strangers, than have my wife point it out when the ceiling starts to saghttp://www.terrylove.com/forums/imag...lies/smile.gif

Many thanks,
DB

I agree, don't just say you are not going to meet code, I am not sure you understand the scope of problems that this can cause.

Either way post up pics.

How do you plan on maintaining pitch through the joists? 4 of them at that. Is there no way to move the pipe below the joists and then run up to be between the joists?

Michael Thomas 06-21-2010 10:47 AM

Give Metwood a call, if allowed by your local AHJ, they may have a engineered joist reinforcement product which will solve your problem.

http://gallery.metwood.com/.thumbnai...%2F.%2F003.jpg

http://www.metwood.com/products/reinforcer

(For the record, I have no business relationship of any kind with Metwood.)

____________________
I’m paid to be
suspicious…
http://paragoninspects.com/images/10...or-pipe-01.jpg

Willie T 06-21-2010 11:22 AM

If you can handle the looks of a small 'drop-down' soffit at the edge of your wall, what about running to the wall with the pipe, turning down beneath the joists, then running along the wall to where you need to go. Afterward, box in that wall run with a small soffit.

This way, you cut no joists at all.

canadaclub 06-21-2010 11:47 AM

I like that Metwood brace. Maybe not for 4 joists but in one it could save a lot of time.

hereslookingatU 06-21-2010 12:49 PM

Hi

Check out 'www.saniflo.com'
This may get over your problem - only real issue is with noise generated when the pump is running!

Regards

bernieb 06-22-2010 07:42 AM

Your new water closet flange and elbo will dictate where pipe will go. If you have a small bathroom and if you have manufactured roof trusses that go from outside wall to outside wall , and if you have the supporting walls on the first floor to support this idea , you may just want to reverse the floor joists in the bathroom area only. I have swung walls from roof trusses many times replacing termite damaged floor joists. As a reminder in moving the comode that far you will need to consider a new vent also as 3 feet is the max from comode opening. Okay boys hammer away as I just may be nuts.

Michael Thomas 06-22-2010 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernieb (Post 459679)
I have swung walls from roof trusses many times replacing termite damaged floor joists. As a reminder in moving the comode that far you will need to consider a new vent also as 3 feet is the max from comode opening. Okay boys hammer away as I just may be nuts.

I'm a bit unclear on what you are suggesting, do you have a picture or diagram?

Thanks


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