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Old 09-28-2009, 05:54 PM   #16
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


you're right, the ledger is cut. don't know why - old house charm

but many of the joists are not supported by the ledger, rather the weight is delivered to the TOP of the center beam. i wedged in some wood just yesterday between the joists and the ledger board.

so this new sister board might be the only board on that ledger. the nails that hold the ledger to the beam are huge.. the head of the nail is the size of a nickle. there is one in the center of the ledger every 16" or so.

Knucklez

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Old 09-29-2009, 09:50 PM   #17
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


by the way Maintenance 6, i like your idea about sandwitching the cracked joist. in fact, this was my original plan, but then i found the header piece connecting to the cracked joist and so sandwitching is not possible unless i do a lot of reorganization. maybe a later date.

for now, i am still left with the 2 questions i posed earlier. any comments on these?

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Old 09-30-2009, 06:48 PM   #18
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


so i am turning the jack just 1/2 turn per day to raise the cracked joist. i would like to raise the joist a full 1/4" from where it is right now and then scribe the new joist a little more to meet half way. hope that is not too much?

its kinda scary when you turn the jack and you hear "pop", "squeek", from the floor(s) above you

hopefully some more pros can look at all the pictures i recently posted and provide additional commentary.

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Old 09-30-2009, 07:18 PM   #19
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


Just a thought
Do you have any other temp supports anywhere else?
Or just the one post?
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:11 PM   #20
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


ya, i was just thinking the exact same thing. i could use another one where the header meets the cracked joist. the header meets the cracked joist about 12" from the crack.. so the jacks will be fairly close together.

unfortunately the bottom of the header is not flush with the bottom of the cracked joist.. old house charm .. so i can not bridge the two pieces of wood with the single jack. so i'll put this 2nd jack only on the header piece (but near the connection to the cracked joist).

then it will act like a backup in case the first jack fails. and i can slowly crank them both up.. not sure if the weight will split 50/50, but it will be something like that.

jacks are cheap, $56.. and i can always use them in the future as permanent support columns.

thanks for the prompting, i'll do that tomorrow.

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Old 10-03-2009, 11:46 PM   #21
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintenance 6 View Post
In the picture with the blue pen marks, you said it's supposed to have a gap here. I've never heard of that and I wouldn't put one there.
i read about it here: "Wood Frame House Construction" By L. O. Anderson. see page google books, page 24 - quick link HERE.

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Old 10-04-2009, 05:39 PM   #22
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


well, job's done now. i put in two 2x8 sister joists, spanning from foundation wall to center beam. i also used construction grade adhesive and 1/2" dia. 6" long hex bolts (UNC 5) with washers.

i went with the bolts in the end because it really wasn't any extra work for a much more secure connection. also, my situation was a bit different because of off dimensional lumber and amount of scribing i had to do (old house charm). so i wanted the extra strength in the bolts to help compensate.

i eased the weight off the jack and nothing moved at all.. so that's good! put a 4' level on the floor above and it is a marked improvement. not perfectly straight (probably impossible in this house, and you might not want to over do it anyway because of historic house settling of other joists) .. but pretty much is a nice solid straight floor now.

oh.. and i added two 1/2" lag bolts with washers in the ledger to beef it up a bit since, as an observant member pointed out, the ledger was cut and probably would benefit from some extra strength. i had to use a 3' cheater bar to turn the socket wrench .. lots of bit in that lag bolt!!!

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Old 10-05-2009, 07:04 AM   #23
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklez View Post
i read about it here: "Wood Frame House Construction" By L. O. Anderson. see page google books, page 24 - quick link HERE.

Knucklez
Ahhhh. Space under the notch, not at the ledger. I misuderstood where you planned the space. Good idea on bolting the ledger. The space is to allow some shrinkage of the joist without placing the joist load on the tab. Without the space, as a joist shrinks it will lift off of the ledger and place load on the tab. That will cause the joist will split at that location.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:40 PM   #24
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


Hey Knucklez,

If you're still around...

I'm in Ontario too, and about to undertake a similar repair to this one (though my joist isn't in quite as bad shape).

I was wondering if I could perhaps ask you a few questions re. where to get materials etc.?

It looks like you've got a single piece steel jackpost there. All the ones I've been able to find stocked so far are telescoping jackposts, and not designed for permanent use. I was planning to leave the jackpost in place after jacking up and sistering the joist, just for added support, so someone in my thread on this told me I'd better get a permanent one (the permanent ones all seem to be single piece, from my google experiences.) Where did you buy that?

Did you end up leaving the column in place, or removing it and just letting the new wood do the work? If the former, did you put a new footer in at the base of the column?

Also, is this the kind of repair that comes under the building code? I know structural modifications need to to have a permit, but I figured this wasn't so much of a modification as a reinforcement of the existing structure.

Any tips would be really welcome!

(If you're still around, that is!)

Cheers,
CS
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:51 PM   #25
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


hi CS, yea i'm still around. i'm not a pro, so you'll have to take my advise with a grain of salt.

my jack posts i have no idea if they are for permanent use or temporary. what exactly is a temporary post anyway, if it can hold the weight for a day it can hold the weight for a lifetime. i bought it from home depot, on the box it said rated for 9000 lbs. also, the 12x12 wood beam down the center of the house is held up by a tree trunk in the middle (wow! old eh!?) and two of the exact same type of jack stand on each end (but with proper footings with rebar and jack posts bolted in). this was done by a previous owner. looks like good work. it is obviously for permanent installation - yet it used the exact same jack post. not sure if this is "code" or not, but seems to work well for a long long time.

use a 4' level to make sure it is straight on both sides. it is round, so hard to find the "sides" but you know what i mean.

raise the cracked joist slowly. 1/4" turn per day once you get the weight on it. my floor was sagging a lot .. i mean, it was 90% cracked through the wood and was down maybe 2" total. .. maybe more. so when i slid in the sister joists (two 2x8) i had to jack up the broken beam a lot. it was SCARY to be under all that hearing "pop .. squeak .. " as it gets jacked up. i happen to have the drywall open on some framing above that floor. when i looked at it, i could see the 2x4 framing starting to bow due to compression (jacking from below). wow!!! so i put in two 2x4 plus some other framing members near by under the stairs etc.. so it would be stronger. again with the nails and the glue. for glue, i am talking about construction grade adhesive which comes in a caulking gun.

and i did not jack up the entire way to level out the broken joist.. it just seemed too far. i leveled it up a bit so the slope isn't as noticeable at all. maybe the floor is not perfectly level, but i'm in an old house and none of my floors are level.

my jack posts are now gone. i SLOWLY unscrewed the jack posts to put the weight of the house on the new sister joists. when i had 1/16" inch gap between wood and jack post i left it like that for a few days just to make sure it was strong and holding. then i removed jack post completely.

my concrete floor is 2" thick. it is not good for proper support of jack post. you need a real footing for permanent solution. how i was able to hold the weight of the house for the few days without cracking the 2" cement is probably a testament to the compacted soil/clay/rock under that concrete.

for permit questions you should call your city building department and see what they have to say. every city can be different.
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Old 08-10-2010, 01:21 PM   #26
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Cracked Floor Joist - what to do?


Hey Knuckles, thanks for sharing.

I talked to an engineer yesterday and he said not to worry too much about my crack...either use some steel plates or else a couple of pieces of wood to sister it with some bolts and then keep an eye on things for a year or so. No need for posts of any kind at the moment. So that was some good news.

Cheers.

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