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Old 05-16-2012, 09:19 PM   #1
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


How much of the shingles do I have to remove to tie new roof frame into main house roof? The roof is only 2 years old and the old roofing was completely stripped before new shingles were installed.
Also, what if the peak of the new framing is higher than the peak of the roof I am tying into.
The new roof will be perpendicular to the existing main house roof.


Last edited by Kim Althar; 05-16-2012 at 09:26 PM. Reason: additional info needed.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:46 PM   #2
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


It looks better if there is no ridge that exceeds the main section of the building. Can you tame the pitch down a bit to accomplish this? I like the pitches to match but you cant spot it if its close unless the roofs are parallel. It is best to strip the roof to frame on top of and back about three feet from each side of the valley. You can frame on top of the shingles and then cut a line at the valley and take out what you need to on each side.

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Old 05-16-2012, 10:08 PM   #3
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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Originally Posted by HartKyle83
You can frame on top of the shingles
That is the worst way to do it. You take the shingles off and do it the right way.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:22 PM   #4
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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Originally Posted by Kim Althar View Post
How much of the shingles do I have to remove to tie new roof frame into main house roof? The roof is only 2 years old and the old roofing was completely stripped before new shingles were installed.
Also, what if the peak of the new framing is higher than the peak of the roof I am tying into.
The new roof will be perpendicular to the existing main house roof.
To go higher than the existing ridge makes the framing difficult. In my area i have seen several done this way.
In all cases they framed a small hip roof with the same pitch as the opposite roof.
You will have to remove enough shingles to allow for the installation of the valley flashing. Its possible that you may be able to recover enough of the removed shingles to redo the valley shingling.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:21 AM   #5
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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That is the worst way to do it. You take the shingles off and do it the right way.
What makes that the "worst way"? I have seen alot of addition tie ins over the years built with the vally framed ontop of the shingles and don't seem to be having any problomes as a result. I am of the opinion that if what you are building looks awesome and lasts with out needing any further attention, than efficiency dictates what is the best way to do things.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #6
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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What makes that the "worst way"? I have seen alot of addition tie ins over the years built with the vally framed ontop of the shingles and don't seem to be having any problomes as a result. I am of the opinion that if what you are building looks awesome and lasts with out needing any further attention, than efficiency dictates what is the best way to do things.
How do you slip the valley flashing under the main roof shingles, if the shingles are left in place.
Am I missing something here?
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:14 AM   #7
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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I am of the opinion that if what you are building looks awesome and lasts with out needing any further attention, than efficiency dictates what is the best way to do things.
You probably frame on top of carpet too.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:19 PM   #8
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


um first lets start with do you know if your structural loads can handle how you are going to add new roof.

building code requirements are always a good guide line
i know who wants the government telling them what they can and can't do on their land i know i don't but who would?
the next owner,the person and their family of the one who got hurt or killed due to poor building structure practices, the homeowner who has to spend more money down the road fixing issues caused by it not being done right the first time. ok add it up are these excesses cheaper then a few hundred dollars to get a knowledgeable people involved
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:46 PM   #9
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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um first lets start with do you know if your structural loads can handle how you are going to add new roof.

building code requirements are always a good guide line
i know who wants the government telling them what they can and can't do on their land i know i don't but who would?
the next owner,the person and their family of the one who got hurt or killed due to poor building structure practices, the homeowner who has to spend more money down the road fixing issues caused by it not being done right the first time. ok add it up are these excesses cheaper then a few hundred dollars to get a knowledgeable people involved
Simple solution to that is to have drawings permits and inspections.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:00 PM   #10
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


correct as i stated at the end of post and usually at the end or after 10 years the few hundred spent on this will prevent spending of a lot more money on time,repairs and damages
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:11 PM   #11
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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How do you slip the valley flashing under the main roof shingles, if the shingles are left in place.
Am I missing something here?

When you are done sheathing the roof you score the vally with a hook blade and remove what you need to for your shingle tie in. This is preaty common based on what I have sean and no one has ofered a reason why this would cause a problome. Not only that but it is tested and it acualy isnt a problome. I do it this way some times because keaping the clients houe dry is a HUGE priority during the addition process and this helps in the cause. I am open to changing my mind if someone has a good reason why I should.
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:24 PM   #12
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


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You probably frame on top of carpet too.
I have framed on top pf carpet. Have you? When I have partition off a large carpeted room and the carpet is staying I have. Is that the wrong way? I am always happy to change my mind if some one is convincing. I have talked to several carpet guys and they have all told me that there is no reason to cut the carpet out for the wall and re-strech after the wall is built. I tend to agree. My experiance is that alot of people spend to much time and money on things that dont matter and not enough where it does matter. For example who decided it was OK to use the drive in door latches. This is the stuff I see all the time. People take the time to cut out the carpet which adds no value to the project as it pertains to aesthetics or longevity. After that they then use a drive in door latch at the end of the project which actually does compromise both aesthetics and longevity. I see things like that all the time.
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Old 05-19-2012, 05:23 PM   #13
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


Under a prescriptive building code like the IRC, the elements of a building are structural to transmit the forces from the exterior (high winds, seismic, etc.). These structural products; plates, studs, joists, rafters, sheathing (wall, roof, floor) are all rated for their span, shear, etc. Other elements are not structural; most sidings, carpets, interior/exterior trim, roofing, etc., that don’t contribute to the buildings strength or transmit these outside forces to the ground. An interior structural wall carrying a roof load would need full contact with the structural sheathing on the floor below. An exterior over-frame roof wood member is structural and needs the contact to another structurally-rated material below it to transmit; Chapter 8---shall control the design and const. of roof/ceiling system for all buildings; http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...9_8_sec001.htm

The next section http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...001_par001.htm under requirements--- capable of accommodating/transmitting the resulting loads to supporting structural elements. (Refers us to); http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...9_3_sec001.htm and lists the seven loads from point of origin through the load-resisting elements to the foundation.

Load-bearing lumber requires a grade mark or C of I on rafters, trusses, and ceiling joists; http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...9_8_sec002.htm

“Wood Roof Framing”- http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...002_par016.htm 3/12 min. slope, components fastened per Table 602.3.1; Under “ROOF” Items 1-6; rafter, ceiling joist, blocking, collar tie, no roof shingles listed- as they are not structural; http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...002_par005.htm

The only alternate material used is on modular homes- when ceiling is pre attached- requires a “compression strip” that shall be of a material capable of transmitting the loads transferred through it; http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...002_par024.htm

Asphalt roofing is found in chapter 9 (claddings), not 8 (roof members); “Requirements For Roof Coverings” installed to resist the component and cladding loads…… high-winds, tall building, and seismic loads, not structural loads to the foundation. Remove the asphalt shingles (roof cladding) under a load-bearing roof/ceiling system, remove the carpet/pad (floor cladding) under a load-bearing wall, remove the siding (wall cladding) between the old/new wall connection to get shear-flow for lateral resistance, as per minimum Code (a “D” on a school test, passing, but barely).


I agree on the drive-in latches, though I’ve yet to replace one because they failed (turned-rotated, or come loose) because they are locked-in by the lock-set. Usually the whole door-l.s., hinges and jambs are up-graded with a new pre-hung unit.

Gary
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #14
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construct new porch roof and tie it into main house roof


A few things to mention. I responded to a comment about framing on carpet. I said I have built a wall on carpet when partitioning off a large carpeted room. You responded about transferring structural loads through carpet. That really doesn't makes sense. On another note I have had three customers ask me to look at a door where some one had used a drive latch that had become loose. The softer the door material the greater the likelihood they become loose. When you use a drive in latch there is not one fastener holding the door knob and latch to the door. The latch and knob can all shift leaving the latch pushed further out then its supposed to be.

I do knot agree that code or building inspectors have a problem with fastening through shingles. Look at steel barn roofing for example. When installing steel on an old barn the purlins are often installed through two layers of asphalt shingles, one layer of ceder shingles, and 3/4 spaced sheathing sandwiched between framing. This is a tested industry slandered. Building inspectors are well aware of this. If you have ever worked on a barn roof you know that there is little protecting them from the wind. If there is ever a place to know that your product can hold up to high wind this is it. Not only are the pruling fastened trough upwards of two inches of sin, they are being attached to 80 plus year old rafters which are not always in prime condition. It is my experience that a barn roof is not addressed untimely about ten years after it should have been. I have never seen a purlin blow off of a barn roof. The steel seems to blow off the purlin long before the purlins themselves blow off. I am still open to changing my mind but this is my frame of reference for my current view point.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:02 PM   #15
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slandered = standard. My Greg on that one.

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