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Old 04-17-2010, 07:00 AM   #31
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excuse my language, but holy ****! itsreallyconc! i have been using your website to learn some concrete basics. no kidding. what are the odds?

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Old 04-17-2010, 07:10 AM   #32
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what clowns, huh ?

no, we rarely use fiber - impo, its become a crutch for most & doesn't prevent random cracking,,, the original intent was to provide inexpensive reinforcement during the ' tension ' moments of concrete curing ( hydration ),,, ' slurry ', to me, is the residual mtl from diamond sawing - a mix of cement, aggregate, diamond blade, & wtr OR the stuff wash'd out of the transit mix trk's barrell & chutes.

we will use rebar at driveway throats ( momemt loading ) & on elevated slabs/bdge decks,,, for slabs on grade such as yours, its not nec NOR is wire mesh.

normally we'll SAW our jnts UNLESS we can safely ( I MAKE THAT CALL ! ) groove 1/3rs of slab thickness,,, we guarantee NO random cracking !

an expansion jnt's different from a contraction jnt & an isolation jnt & a construction jnt

time to go make some $$$$$$$$$$


time
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:18 AM   #33
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itsreallyconc. i think i'll ask to stick w/ rebar. if it were you putting it in i'd trust that you could leave it out. but i'm not seeing this level of expertise, yet.

hmm, now i'm getting confused ... for the size of slabs in this job, will rebar grid (w/ no tying of rebar ends, except bailing wire) and 1/4" tool joints work? the 7.5'x8' slab will have three dowel bars on each side.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:07 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Water Guy View Post
Things must still be pretty tight in Texas if you’re getting contractors bidding on a job like this for $700.00

This sounds like everything is in your favor and against the contractor. Not a fair agreement to all parties at all.

This pretty much sums up my opinion as well. Seems like you need to find a contractor from a referel rather than craigslist or the phone book. As a HO who doesn't have the proper background in this scenario, I think "micro-managing" this small job to this degree can have ill results for yourself. Any contractor worth his salt will not allow the HO to restrict his own "best practices" as learned through his career. I'm afraid the guy you hire w/this contract will be one who doesn't know enough about the job, that will actually find comfort in the details you have provided him.

Good luck with this approach.

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Originally Posted by rosco View Post
itsreallyconc. i think i'll ask to stick w/ rebar. if it were you putting it in i'd trust that you could leave it out. but i'm not seeing this level of expertise, yet.

There's absolutely nothing wrong w/using rebar in this small project, it's actually fairly cheap insurance.

hmm, now i'm getting confused ... for the size of slabs in this job, will rebar grid (w/ no tying of rebar ends, except bailing wire) and 1/4" tool joints work? the 7.5'x8' slab will have three dowel bars on each side.
The dowels are a wise choose as well. The 7' X 8' slab needs NO control joints. the longer 26' x 5' could be jointed into 4 or 5 squares, whichever works better asthetically. When tooling the joints in, 1/4 of the depth (1" in this case) of the concrete. When sawing the next day, I prefer more like 1/3 the depth.

These are all things that a concrete pro needs to know already though. Again, good luck.
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
As a HO who doesn't have the proper background in this scenario, I think "micro-managing" this small job to this degree can have ill results for yourself. Any contractor worth his salt will not allow the HO to restrict his own "best practices" as learned through his career. I'm afraid the guy you hire w/this contract will be one who doesn't know enough about the job, that will actually find comfort in the details you have provided him.

Good luck with this approach.

These are all things that a concrete pro needs to know already though. Again, good luck.
jomama, One of the many problems that I see with the OP's job here is that he is not looking for a concrete pro. The OP is looking for someone willing to sign his 'contract' and take responsibility for the OP's demands at an unreasonable price.

The OP did some research to do the job himself, figured his cost's, then got prices from a couple of 'referrals' and came up with pretty much the same price done by a 'contractor'. There is no way that a liscenced and insured contractor will be making money on this job for $700.00 less the cost of the concrete and rebar. It's going to take half of the alloted construction time just going through the ever changing one sided contract.

The OP got the referrals (for potential 'contractors') from the concrete company(s). This raises a red flag for me. Getting a referral from a supplier doesn't mean that they are good, it just means that they purchase product from them.

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Old 04-19-2010, 09:04 AM   #36
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jomama - i don't know anyone who has had cement work done so getting a referral is difficult. this is the problem. the contractors i've found were referred by the cement companies. and not all were said to do good work, just cement work. i'm not micro-managing, i'm planning what i want done and getting it in writing so i don't have another contractor trick me. once the job starts i can only make sure what is in writing is followed. AND, again, the contractor can change anything on the "agreement," as long as it is explained to me first. one wanted to take out the rebar, another wanted to add water to the pre-mixed concrete, another wanted to do the job with the cement taken out in "his" contract but forgot to take it out of his price (and did he push to start ASAP!).

Water Guy - they are naming their prices. i'm not even suggesting a range. let go of the $700. i found him out quickly (insisting to water down the mixed concrete) and another had tried to trick me on the price. the job will not be done for $700. This is our house and i'm not giving a d*mn what others want done or how they want to do it. only what we want done to achieve what we want. and yes, the two current slabs were laid in the 40's and they are still perfect.

i'll take care of the cement delivery and check the batch mix data to make sure the water/cement ratio is .40.

fhornberger - i was with you 100% until the computer program. i think you may have responded to the wrong thread bud.

All - this porch may never be laid. BUT, i'll not have a cruddy back porch to walk on for the next twenty years. There are still several contractors with bids in that have no problems with doing what i've specified. one even said that was how he'd do it anyhow.

Last edited by rosco; 04-19-2010 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:55 AM   #37
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Thank you to all of you who helped! the cost of the "concrete" project was $750. Replacing the rotting posts and portion of the porch was about $200.

a contractor would have charged about $2,000 or $3,000 for this job and i'd not have learned anything.

I'll post a photo after the pour sets later tonight!
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:43 PM   #38
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Job is Done!
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:12 PM   #39
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on balance, great work,,, be proud of your efforts,,, otoh, why the hook bars into the post conc ? the intent of isolation jnt mtl is to PREVENT new conc from attachment/bonding to structures,,, IF, perchance, frost causes your slabs to lift, either they'll drag your posts UP OR, more likely, exert force upon the top 1/2 of the slab & cause popouts/spalls,,, HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING AT ALL ? ?

difficult to see your finishing technique or bar tie wire in detail but CONGRATS ! ! ! NOW GO TAKE YOUR WIFE OUT TO DINNER ! ! !
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:05 PM   #40
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Did you put any gravel or sand under the slab? Or did they pour directly over the dirt?
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:43 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsreallyconc View Post
on balance, great work,,, be proud of your efforts,,, otoh, why the hook bars into the post conc ? the intent of isolation jnt mtl is to PREVENT new conc from attachment/bonding to structures,,, IF, perchance, frost causes your slabs to lift, either they'll drag your posts UP OR, more likely, exert force upon the top 1/2 of the slab & cause popouts/spalls,,, HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING AT ALL ? ?

difficult to see your finishing technique or bar tie wire in detail but CONGRATS ! ! ! NOW GO TAKE YOUR WIFE OUT TO DINNER ! ! !
Yeah, thanks. we'll BBQ on it tomorrow night!

i switched from rebar to the bent 8" bolts so i could screw on a washer/bolt so they wouldn't be pushed out by the concrete. they were put in to help stop cracking off the sonotubes. Today, it is about 100F and 10% humidity, in the shade.
the soil is very different here from other areas i've lived. at about 2' down it is like rock. it makes a metalic noise when pushing a shovel through it. settling may occur, but not unless the ground under it has been moved.

the rebar was tied in using ~6" bar ties. they were spaced at about 18" apart.

ah, over the months since i started this, that d*amn pit flooded like three times and i had to dig it back out, including untying an tying the rebar. separate the muddy clay loam from the sand with a rake, etc.

one thing that really helped was separating the concrete company from the finisher. the first time i didn't and i got water. the second pour, i got some nice concrete!
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:55 PM   #42
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Did you put any gravel or sand under the slab? Or did they pour directly over the dirt?
there is a bed of sand under it.

it is hard for someone not from this area to understand. water doesn't go into the soil. it sits on top. this is the nature of clay and loam soils.

it is my guess the dust bowl here happened for just this reason. water just sits on top until the sun/air take it away. so, when the farmer of-days-gone-by, had to watch this, he decided to plow the heck out of his fields whenever he saw a cloud. that was the only way he'd not have to look at water sitting on top of dry soil. plowing doesn't really help, even though visibly it seems to help a lot. the tilled soil looses the water much more readily. and with Oklahoma suckin' nearby, water evaporates very quickly.

i know, bad joke. but i hope this explains the soil down here better.

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