Concrete Foundation In Winter... Very Worried!!! - Building & Construction - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2010, 12:49 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chatham, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


I live in Southwestern Ontario Canada. My house foundation (walls and footings) were poured in late November. It is currently 1 week into January and there has been no sub floor yet, nor have they poured the basement floor. Another contractor mentioned to me that I should be concerned due to the cold... should I be, and how can I tell if there may be a future problem.. what are the signs?

Pouring tempature was aprox 10 degees (C) or 50 degrees (F)
Current Tempature is -15 degrees (C) or 5 degrees (F).

Without a concrete floor in or a sub floor do I have something to worry?

Advertisement

ChathamJedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 02:29 AM   #2
Member
 
jlhaslip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canadian Rockies
Posts: 1,280
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Won't be much 'sign' until spring after the ground thaws. Worst thing to watch for is water getting under the footing and jacking the footing up. It likely won't be good if that happens. Check the top of the wall height with a level before the subfloor goes on.

Advertisement

jlhaslip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 07:46 AM   #3
Remodeling Contractor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 3,590
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Was the foundation protected from weather? If so, for how long and how? If not...WORRY! and then build over in the spring.
Bob Mariani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 10:45 AM   #4
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,796
Rewards Points: 2,144
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


A few questions:

- Is the foundation backfilled?
- How much snow is in the basement?
- Has anything like hay or insulating blankets been laid out in the basement?

BTW, a concrete floor will offer little to no frost protection in your situation.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:17 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chatham, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
A few questions:

- Is the foundation backfilled?
- How much snow is in the basement?
- Has anything like hay or insulating blankets been laid out in the basement?

BTW, a concrete floor will offer little to no frost protection in your situation.
Yes the foundation was backfilled right away (november 25th)
Very little snow (1-3 inches overall)
There is hay over the footings
ChathamJedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:18 AM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chatham, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhaslip View Post
Won't be much 'sign' until spring after the ground thaws. Worst thing to watch for is water getting under the footing and jacking the footing up. It likely won't be good if that happens. Check the top of the wall height with a level before the subfloor goes on.
Yes this is what I am also worried about... jacking the footings up. does a subfloor really provide that much heat difference?
ChathamJedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:24 AM   #7
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,796
Rewards Points: 2,144
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChathamJedi View Post
Yes the foundation was backfilled right away (november 25th)
Very little snow (1-3 inches overall)
There is hay over the footings
I would personally make sure there was 2'+ of hay over all footings, including post pads & any bearing wall footings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChathamJedi View Post
Yes this is what I am also worried about... jacking the footings up. does a subfloor really provide that much heat difference?

No, it can protect a little, as well as hamper the basement warming up when the sun comes out.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 04:30 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,013
Rewards Points: 2,092
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Hopefully you have a working drainage system outside at the footing level to remove the water in the back-fill that could otherwise freeze, forming ice lenses and jacking the walls/footings, as required down here- IRC 405.1 http://www.servicemagic.com/article....age.13702.html
http://www.waltersforensic.com/artic.../vol1-no11.htm

Also, down here our code makes us install the first floor system to keep the over 4’ high concrete walls stable before back-fill compacting exerts forces on them, or if subject to hydrostatic pressure required in their design—IRC 404.1.3
Do not install back-fill above 4ft. until walls anchored to the floor- IRC 401.7


Just sight along the top of the walls for level and straight (bowing in) from the top corners.


Be safe, Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 06:33 PM   #9
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,309
Rewards Points: 2,196
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


If your concrete was properly placed and cured, and was placed on gravel rather than frost prone silty soil, the lack of a subfloor will have no impact on the concrete. But GBR is absolutely correct, it is typically a bad idea to backfill a concrete wall without the floor joists in place, since the concrete is prone to deflection and cracking. Based on your post, it sounds like the wall was backfilled, so you should check it for deflection and cracking, especially come spring when the water table is likely to be high, and the soil pressure at a maximum.
Daniel Holzman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 06:22 PM   #10
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,796
Rewards Points: 2,144
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Also, down here our code makes us install the first floor system to keep the over 4’ high concrete walls stable before back-fill compacting exerts forces on them, or if subject to hydrostatic pressure required in their design—IRC 404.1.3
Do not install back-fill above 4ft. until walls anchored to the floor- IRC 401.7
Gary, aren't you allowed to brace the foundation walls in lieu of capping the basement? "Footlock" bracing is the norm around here, although most contractors generally don't use enough braces IMO. It's still very, very rare to see any issues backfilling a basement around here before capping due to current foundation standards we have.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 06:36 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
If your concrete was properly placed and cured, and was placed on gravel rather than frost prone silty soil, the lack of a subfloor will have no impact on the concrete. But GBR is absolutely correct, it is typically a bad idea to backfill a concrete wall without the floor joists in place, since the concrete is prone to deflection and cracking. Based on your post, it sounds like the wall was backfilled, so you should check it for deflection and cracking, especially come spring when the water table is likely to be high, and the soil pressure at a maximum.
I'm curious as to this since in a lot of cases the garage floor is left until last ?
Garage is normally open to all weather all the time
The floor isn't poured until near the end so it will be in "pristine" condition for the new owner

Ah - basement VS garage - different
My walls are backfilled on both sides evenly
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 05:19 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,013
Rewards Points: 2,092
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
Gary, aren't you allowed to brace the foundation walls in lieu of capping the basement? "Footlock" bracing is the norm around here, although most contractors generally don't use enough braces IMO. It's still very, very rare to see any issues backfilling a basement around here before capping due to current foundation standards we have.

"IRC code section R404.1.7 states that “backfill shall not be placed against the wall until the wall has sufficient strength and has been anchored to the floor above, or has been sufficiently braced to prevent damage by the backfill”. This includes pouring the basement slab within the basement wall.
Exception: “Such bracing is not required for walls supporting less than 4’ of unbalenced backfill”." ------ From: http://www.co.henrico.va.us/dyn/med_...ementWalls.pdf
Tricky wording, that.

A lot of pressure to restrain, depending on the soil type: http://www.servicemagic.com/article....lls.13696.html

If the perimeter drain is not working, the back-fill soil will be saturated with water, able to create ice lenses to heave the walls/footings: http://www.phbia.com/pdf/PHBIA%20ANH...rch%202009.ppt

Be safe, Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:12 PM   #13
Chicago, IL
 
Michael Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,037
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Concrete Foundation in Winter... Very worried!!!


Concrete does not achieve full strength for 25-30 days - longer in cold weather. A standard recommendation is to wait 5-7 days before backfill, 10 days in cold weather. Many contractors don't wait, but that's what the books recommend, see for example see pages 23-24 at http://tinyurl.com/yffzx4h

Advertisement

__________________
Home Inspections, Infrared (Thermal Imaging) Leak Identification and Inspection Services, Roof, Attic, Building, Basement and Foundation Moisture Intrusion and Water Leak Inspections, Troubled Building Consultations - Serving Chicago and Suburbs http://paragoninspects.com/
Michael Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insulating Poured Concrete Foundation sweaty Building & Construction 7 01-16-2009 10:18 AM
concrete foundation with a crawl space agrenvik Building & Construction 1 03-25-2008 09:27 PM
Cut window opening in concrete foundation. Bcoleman6 Building & Construction 2 03-10-2008 07:38 PM
Worried about winter coming wease Plumbing 4 08-31-2007 08:13 PM
refacing rubble concrete foundation footings Buck Building & Construction 2 10-25-2006 01:36 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts