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Old 06-30-2011, 05:16 PM   #31
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concrete form release


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Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Stay with the snap-ties if that is the way you want to do it but don't go riggin' up a bunch of Rube Goldberg crap.

Besides, those pipes aren't coming out once they are in there, then any patching you want to do later won't stick to the plastic and will likely create a week point in your finish product.
I see a lot of walls around here with holes all the way thru, so I know somebody is doing something like this. And I don't think there's any structural issue.

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Old 06-30-2011, 05:22 PM   #32
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Go for it!
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:22 AM   #33
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The bolts your talking about are refered to as "she-bolts" to tie the forms together and they are just coiled rod. I cant remember how they installed them though, I think that there is a sacrifical peices that stay in the wall...???? I remember greasing them (grease by the bucketful) I dont think a 6' wall calls for anywere near that much support though.

I agree with bud that you'll never get the pvc out of the wall. You may get a couple out but you'll have burned a full tank of curse words doing it.

If I were you I'd find a local rental shop that carries diffrent form systems and supplys, they may have just what your looking for.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:02 AM   #34
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Thanks again for the comments/suggestions.

I've now got the forms nearly completed and have decided to go with standard snap ties. But, I'm still kinda stuck on the form release issue. Several local people have told me to use motor oil or diesel, but I'd like to use something a little more environmentally friendly. I also might want to put some tile or such over it eventually, and I'm thinking the heavy-duty oil might cause problems.

I know several people suggested getting "real" form release, but I can't seem to find anything local. So, after some internet searching, I'm thinking that maybe a thick mineral oil might be a good choice. Whaddayathink?
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:12 AM   #35
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There's plenty of "enviromentally friendly" releases available, you'll probably just need to go to a local ready-mix supplier to find them. Here's one brand we use quite often:



http://www.wrmeadows.com/wrm00006.htm
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:42 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD View Post
I see a lot of walls around here with holes all the way thru, so I know somebody is doing something like this. And I don't think there's any structural issue.

I've done a lot of this type wall. The form system works well for home owners who can do the job in stages, using the bolt together forms for repeated sections of wall.

While higher walls can be built with the type forms I use, they work best on walls no taller than 32". Most diy homeowners would be smart to leave tall walls to contractors.

For walls under 4 ft high, my walls were poured 5.5" thick. The pvc spacer tubes are easy to tap out of the completed wall. Before assembling the forms I coat the pvc spacers with full strength mop-n-glow and let it dry. As a mater of fact, when the above is done the spacer can be removed and replaced with a longer piece, a good method for putting water or electrical conduit through the wall.

Below are some forms partially assembled forms ...

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Old 07-05-2011, 12:54 PM   #37
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I've done a lot of this type wall. The form system works well for home owners who can do the job in stages, using the bolt together forms for repeated sections of wall.

While higher walls can be built with the type forms I use, they work best on walls no taller than 32". Most diy homeowners would be smart to leave tall walls to contractors.

For walls under 4 ft high, my walls were poured 5.5" thick. The pvc spacer tubes are easy to tap out of the completed wall. Before assembling the forms I coat the pvc spacers with full strength mop-n-glow and let it dry. As a mater of fact, when the above is done the spacer can be removed and replaced with a longer piece, a good method for putting water or electrical conduit through the wall.

Below are some forms partially assembled forms ...

Thanks for that interesting info. That's exactly what I was considering doing, and I know I'd seen some info online, but couldn't seem to track it down---I bet it's something you had posted previously.

However, we're building a pretty substantial wall, and I was able to find the snap ties locally, so I'm going to go that route this time around. We also built another wall (even higher than the current one) using the same snap ties, and that worked out well, so I figure why mess with success.

So, what do you use for form release? It looks like you've painted the forms. Did you do anything in addition?
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:00 PM   #38
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There's plenty of "enviromentally friendly" releases available, you'll probably just need to go to a local ready-mix supplier to find them. Here's one brand we use quite often:



http://www.wrmeadows.com/wrm00006.htm
Thanks for the link. About how much does that stuff cost you, and how far does a gallon go?

The problem is finding something local, since I'm about ready to pour, and I don't want to delay any longer. I'm sure some places around here have some stuff, but a lot of them seem to only deal with contractors.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:07 AM   #39
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The forms are done, and I'm (finally) hoping to get it poured in the next day or two. I've used high strength snap ties and I used DuoGard II as the form release (almost no odor or mess).

I'm going to have an experienced concrete guy help with the pour, but I have a question about vibrating the concrete. I've read several things about how to properly vibrate concrete, and the official info goes something like this:
Insert the vibrator and let it drop of it's own accord to the proper depth. Leave it there for 5 to 15 seconds, then pull it up at a rate of about 4 seconds per foot. Also, don't drag the vibrator thru the concrete and don't use it to move concrete horizontally.

Here is one place where you can find this info (there are lots of others that say basically the same thing):
http://www.concreteconstruction.net/...m45-342880.pdf

However, when I go on YouTube and look at examples of people actually vibrating concrete, they seem to go a lot faster than recommended. That is, they lower the vibrator head down, leave it there for a couple of seconds, and then pull it up a lot faster than 4 seconds per foot. So, I'm just wondering what is the proper technique. Thanks.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:04 AM   #40
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I was taught to let it drop on it's own and then to pull it out at the same rate, with no stop at the bottom. Over lapping the pattern by a third on the next plunge. Horizonal ?.......yea you should try not to do that.....BUT if you just need to fill in a corner or at the end of the form go ahead and dick it, just dont try to move concrete several feet and dont over do it. I would say that for the size of your wall a 1"-1.25" dia. tip or "dick" should work fine.

Plan on having someone help with the vibrator power switch, It can be a handfull sometimes for one man. It's important that you shut it down when not in use or it will over heat, pulling it out of the mix and droping it in a foot away is fine just dont stand there and let it humm.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:52 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by STL B. View Post
I was taught to let it drop on it's own and then to pull it out at the same rate, with no stop at the bottom. Over lapping the pattern by a third on the next plunge. Horizonal ?.......yea you should try not to do that.....BUT if you just need to fill in a corner or at the end of the form go ahead and dick it, just dont try to move concrete several feet and dont over do it. I would say that for the size of your wall a 1"-1.25" dia. tip or "dick" should work fine.

Plan on having someone help with the vibrator power switch, It can be a handfull sometimes for one man. It's important that you shut it down when not in use or it will over heat, pulling it out of the mix and droping it in a foot away is fine just dont stand there and let it humm.
That seems to be the way that I see people using them online. I think the only one I can rent here is about 2" diameter, so I hope that's not a problem.
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:03 AM   #42
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I was taught to let it drop on it's own and then to pull it out at the same rate, with no stop at the bottom. Over lapping the pattern by a third on the next plunge. Horizonal ?.......yea you should try not to do that.....BUT if you just need to fill in a corner or at the end of the form go ahead and dick it, just dont try to move concrete several feet and dont over do it. I would say that for the size of your wall a 1"-1.25" dia. tip or "dick" should work fine.

Plan on having someone help with the vibrator power switch, It can be a handfull sometimes for one man. It's important that you shut it down when not in use or it will over heat, pulling it out of the mix and droping it in a foot away is fine just dont stand there and let it humm.
Btw, I just found another place that rents them and has a 1" diameter and 1.5" diameter. It looks like the 1" diameter should work (according to their specs), and it's a lot lighter weight.

Here's another unrelated questions... Do we need to pump the concrete or can we just drop it from the chute? Access is sufficient, so it seems to me that no pump is necessary. Is that correct?
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:45 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by STL B. View Post
I was taught to let it drop on it's own and then to pull it out at the same rate, with no stop at the bottom. Over lapping the pattern by a third on the next plunge. Horizonal ?.......yea you should try not to do that.....BUT if you just need to fill in a corner or at the end of the form go ahead and dick it, just dont try to move concrete several feet and dont over do it. I would say that for the size of your wall a 1"-1.25" dia. tip or "dick" should work fine.

Plan on having someone help with the vibrator power switch, It can be a handfull sometimes for one man. It's important that you shut it down when not in use or it will over heat, pulling it out of the mix and droping it in a foot away is fine just dont stand there and let it humm.
Excellent advise IMO..........

I've never noticed a benefit from letting it sit in the bottom of the form. I'd also agree with the 1-1.25" head for your situation with about a 4" slump concrete. Anything more will likely just cause more problems than good.

Good luck with the pour............
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:50 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD View Post
Btw, I just found another place that rents them and has a 1" diameter and 1.5" diameter. It looks like the 1" diameter should work (according to their specs), and it's a lot lighter weight.

It depends alot on the motor (the main body) size. A small cordless vibrator with a 1" head won't really do much, but a sizable motor with 1" is sufficient.


Here's another unrelated questions... Do we need to pump the concrete or can we just drop it from the chute? Access is sufficient, so it seems to me that no pump is necessary. Is that correct?
You can certainly chute it IF the 6' tall wall isn't too far out of the ground. With a front discharge truck, I wouldn't expect them to reach anymore than 4' high w/o a real wet concrete and no chutes on. 2-3' is much easier fro them to reach, vertically speaking.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:31 PM   #45
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Excellent advise IMO..........

I've never noticed a benefit from letting it sit in the bottom of the form. I'd also agree with the 1-1.25" head for your situation with about a 4" slump concrete. Anything more will likely just cause more problems than good.

Good luck with the pour............
Here's the stats on the vibrator:

Weight: 20 lbs.
Frequency: 50-60 hz
Capacity: 8 cu. yd.
Compaction Area: up to 16 in. dia.
Motor: 1.3 hp
Power: electric - 115 volt
Electrical Draw: 9 amps
Electrical requirement: 1,100 watts
Head Diameter: 1 in.
Available Whips: 6.5 ft.

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