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Old 06-28-2011, 10:17 AM   #16
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concrete form release


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Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Steel Toes this site has some fairly nifty features for quoting and stuff like that. You should learn to use them. It would make your comments easier to understand.


You have never seen wall-forms blow out from the over-use of a vibrator have you? It's not a pretty sight, and it's not easy to clean up. He doesn't need a vibrator necessarily.


I know Bud but my brain doesn’t always listen to me nor it does things in order
I spend one of my summer breaks working for the company that was specialized in building weight stations.
I was that new guy assigned to work with concrete vibrator.

No they don’t need a vibrator, necessarily, but one would definitely help them achieve what they want.


Last edited by SteelToes; 06-28-2011 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:49 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
As Bud brought out correctly in post #7. Jeremy, you must have skipped this from my answer "Gives more time to trowel smooth right after stripping." You obviously can't wait more than an hour, depends on weather, ingredients, etc.

Gary
I still haven't seen a response regarding this "can't wait more than an hour" comment. It seems kinda daffy to me.

I've used a concrete vibrator before, without incident. I think it's necessary on a wall like this, particularly since the concrete has to be pumped. In any case, I'll have some experienced help for the actual pour---I'm just trying to do a much of the prep as I can by myself.

After further reflection, I think I'll not worry about the smoothness issue, since the visible parts will probably (eventually) get covered with something (although eventually can be a long time...). But, I am intrigued about using plastic inside the forms, since I'd like to keep it damp and cure it properly.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:51 AM   #18
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concrete form release


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Skim coating over newly poured stuf will work but you are looking at the work that can be avoided now using better plywood.

AC or BX ply its only 20% more than CDX and unless you are doing a mile long retaining wall that is a money well spent.
Good advice.



Quote:
You have never seen wall-forms blow out from the over-use of a vibrator have you? It's not a pretty sight, and it's not easy to clean up. He doesn't need a vibrator necessarily.
I've had them bow, buckle, moan and groan but I've never a true blow-out, and I've poured some really crappy looking forms built by really crappy carpenters. So I dont think that it would be to hard for a home owner to build forms strong enough to vibrate.

I do believe that any wall poured and not vibrated was not done correctly. It's not a hard tool to learn how to use, I got a 60sec. lesson once as the pre-mix trucks were pulling into the lot. You just drop the dick in the mix and let it fall at it's own pace when it hits bottom or close to it you pull it out at the same rate that it fell......overlap the pattern by 1/3 all the way down the wall.



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I was that new guy assigned to work with concrete vibrator.
What's to gripe about thats one of the best jobs on a large concrete pour. I learned the same way but contractors really really like to have a crew with plenty of experiance climbing around on large walls.........It makes for job security and it feels nice standing up high on the forms watching everyone else dig trenches
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #19
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I am intrigued about using plastic inside the forms, since I'd like to keep it damp and cure it properly.
Dont do it, as someone else mentioned if it's not perfectly flat against the forms you'll end up with some really ugly puckers/wrinkels on your wall. It will also leave a glass smooth glossy finish, exterior concrete should'nt have that glossy finnish it's not durable.


Edit.....Strip your forms the following day and wet down the wall and tent plastic over wall (not tight to the concrete) if you really want to, but you really dont need to. Burlap is a better choice for keeping concrete moist for a cure.

Last edited by STL B.; 06-28-2011 at 11:09 AM. Reason: forgot something..
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:10 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by STL B. View Post
Dont do it, as someone else mentioned if it's not perfectly flat against the forms you'll end up with some really ugly puckers/wrinkels on your wall. It will also leave a glass smooth glossy finish, exterior concrete should'nt have that glossy finnish it's not durable.
Agreed.

STL B.

I read what you said about working with the vibrator being a best job on the site but man i still remember pulling that thing back and forth ...standing in concrete almost up to my knees

Seriously. I still remember
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:27 AM   #21
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I read what you said about working with the vibrator being a best job on the site but man i still remember pulling that thing back and forth ...standing in concrete almost up to my knees

Seriously. I still remember
I've poured 4x more walls than flat work so I guess I blocked that from my mind......Yea it sux. But you have to admit is beats blocking or shoveling.


This is what I should've typed....
Quote:
It makes for job security and it feels nice standing up high on the forms watching everyone else dig trenches and pour flat work
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by STL B. View Post
Dont do it, as someone else mentioned if it's not perfectly flat against the forms you'll end up with some really ugly puckers/wrinkels on your wall. It will also leave a glass smooth glossy finish, exterior concrete should'nt have that glossy finnish it's not durable.


Edit.....Strip your forms the following day and wet down the wall and tent plastic over wall (not tight to the concrete) if you really want to, but you really dont need to. Burlap is a better choice for keeping concrete moist for a cure.
OK, no plastic.

Speaking of plywood, I've used 23/32 sheathing (I can get the exact mumbo jumbo printed on it, if that matters), which is the cheapest stuff at Home Depot. It's pretty rough on the surface. Btw, the studs are spaced 10.5" OC. It's a similar setup to something we did before which was a little bigger and we didn't have problems with that. Anyways, let me know if you see any potential problems. I'd rather know beforehand...
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:13 PM   #23
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I was a union laborer for a while and worked by the union rules......so carpenters build forms and laborers filled'um and stripped/wrecked'um. I've never built any forms, only set curb forms/tubes and ballards.

How big is your wall going to be? If it's a long wall it would prolly be cheaper to rent forms rather than buy buying 50+ sheets of plywood and using it one time.
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Old 06-28-2011, 04:30 PM   #24
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I've used 23/32 sheathing (I can get the exact mumbo jumbo printed on it, if that matters), which is the cheapest stuff at Home Depot.
And therein lies your first issue if you want to torture yourself later trying to get a decent finish on the exterior of the wall.

That plywood probably has missing knots, knot cutouts, splits, bulges, and what you can't see on the inside layers is the voids that will cause the concrete to swell on the surface as it pushes the outer lam of plywood into the hidden void.

The exact "mumbo jumbo" (as you refer to it) is exactly what one would look for when selecting a suitable plywood. But if you think it is mumbo jumbo then there is probably no hope to get you to change your mind about which plywood to use. So go for it, you are the one that has to be happy with the results.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:15 PM   #25
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I've put up the forms for the back of the wall, and I don't care if that's rough, so no problem there. I could get more expensive plywood for the exposed parts. But, I'm still wondering if there is something I can do to smooth out the roughness, before putting whatever as a form release. I guess I'm still looking for an answer to my original question...
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:16 PM   #26
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I've seen forms that had been patched with something, maybe a 2 part epoxy. Sorry I cant give you a product name.

Even if your a pro your still going to have a little honeycomb so still consider skimming the whole wall and brushing the finish with a coarse brush or broom. I dont think it would take more than a few hours and may save you time if you if you dont have to pretty-up the face of the forms.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:26 PM   #27
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Sorry on the late response, I’ve been busy. I’ve stripped 2 foot walls after setting and pouring the same day, not 6 foot, read it wrong…... other than porch sidewalls and slabs on straw bales (filler), 4-5 feet tall (no snap ties with wall form on only one side).. The problem is the form restraints. In a 6’ wall, use rented forms (1-1/8” smooth veneered) plywood with cleats on the poured/set footing, snap-ties and shoes at 2’, extended snaps and whalers (Google it) at 4’ and cleats (spreaders and ties in one) on top. (That way you are not leaving a bunch of nail-holes in the form top edges). As said, much easier than spreaders and tie wire, plus the finish is better. Anything over 2’ high requires a snap-tie that sets-up overnight so when you twist the removable end off, the whole thing doesn’t just spin in place. Once they are all off, mix up some concrete powder in a burlap bag (J-bolts/nuts come in them) for a “slurry” to “sack” the wall, filling the irregularities and holes with wet mud squeezed out the sack holes while coating the wall.

A sheet sander ( paper backward ) works well if no access to a stinger,…… Don’t forget to pitch the wall toward the dirt, if needed, and add weep holes so as not to build-up hydrostatic pressure at the inside base. Please do more “in-depth” research before the job, hope it works out well.

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Old 06-30-2011, 08:54 AM   #28
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Thanks again for all of the comments. I think I'm good to go with the forms and form release. Now, I'm thinking about possible alternative to snap ties. I've posted that question in a new thread, in case anybody is interested:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/concr...52/#post677137
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:37 PM   #29
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That other thread doesn't seem to be working out---I guess I should've stayed with this one.

So, here's the new question, which is just a thought at this point, not something that I've decided on: I was considering possible alternatives to snap ties. One thing I've seen is white PVC pipe thru the form (maybe 1" diameter tube, or so), then put something thru the pipe to tie the two sides of the form together. Later, the tubing is removed leaving a hole thru the wall, which can be patched. I can't find too much info on such an approach, but it seems like kind of a clever idea. I was wondering if anybody has any thoughts (or, better yet, experience). Thanks.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:09 PM   #30
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Stay with the snap-ties if that is the way you want to do it but don't go riggin' up a bunch of Rube Goldberg crap.

Besides, those pipes aren't coming out once they are in there, then any patching you want to do later won't stick to the plastic and will likely create a week point in your finish product.

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