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Old 01-12-2010, 01:43 PM   #61
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
This is not, in any way, to disparage anyone's suggestions here. The formwork as described is very good construction. In fact, I've done many similar setups myself.

However, I DO want you to be well aware of the expense and the amount of work you are signing up for with this approach. It's a LOT.

On every brace, you are going to have to have at least seven (7), possibly eight (8) pieces of wood carefully cut and accurately installed. And this is not counting the actual forms, themselves. Yes, there are some cheaper shortcuts that can save installing a few boards, but they are not examples of good, solid formwork construction. Cutting corners usually cuts quality.

And you have to transport, lift, cut, fit, plumb, level, nail, and adjust some relatively heavy and unyielding hunks of form lumber all the way around the perimeter. Again, kind of expensive stuff... and a ton of work.

By the way, those four little squares of plywood I show holding up the formboards and joining the bracket to them are pretty tough for a novice to install. (They are honestly best done if you use three longer boards instead of four short ones... see the next post below.) You may have to end up going with 2x4's there instead. And 2x4's that small tend to split when nailed. This is just something to be aware of.

And trust me, your concrete finisher is not going to think too highly of you once he gets through finishing around all those dozens and dozens of aggravation form pieces. The bottoms are nothing, but the tops can have you pulling your hair out. And they still always end up with some pretty rough looking sill top surfaces... even if you leave a half inch or so to get a trowel in there.

Then you have to strip off all the forms afterward... and pay to have the scrap pieces hauled off to the dump.

Although this is a good system, it is both quite expensive and fairly labor intensive.

One final point. No matter how you get the concrete into place (short of using a crane) you are going to have to contend with workers who really don't care too much about preserving and protecting all the work you put into getting those forms installed "just right". They will step on them, roll wheelbarrows over them, drag heavy concrete hoses over them, knock stakes out of line, and in general destroy a lot of your work.

Please think about this too... You still have to get a lot of rebar bent and tied from the slab up into a horizontal length of rebar in that little short sill wall. Without this addition, that small wall will eventually begin cracking where it meets the slab. No, bending the wire mesh up into there will not do it. It takes rebar.

DISCLAIMER: The grass and prepared slab dirt shown in these drawings will NOT be at the same height in reality. They were drawn this way simply to make visualizing the formwork easier.
Willie T - I have an idea for you and will everyone.

I have got the idea from the book Foundations and Concrete Work - by the Taunton Press - Revised edition. There is a chapter about footings and they have a picture and talk about the metal brackets they have made to go over the 2 x 12 form boards.

What about taking this same premise and applying it to the curb, the same design you have of what looks like plywood bracing over make that steel. Two pre drilled holes can be on the one side for the 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 to brace up the curb. To take off in finishing unscrew or just pull up the entire system.

On the back side the side that is say 24'' deep make it a few inches longer so you can hammer it in a little??

Just a thought for everyone to think about, trying to think outside the box not for my project but everyone.

I will see if my Dad (Ironworker Local 223) can make me one and I will post the pictures

Something to think about

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Old 01-12-2010, 01:47 PM   #62
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Willie T, first off, nice drawings!

Second, I'd tend to agree that the style of forming in the pics is complicated. In fact, it's far more complicated than it needs to be. On page 1 of this thread, vsheetz's pics show just how simple this slab can be formed.

Depending on code requirements, all that would be needed would be:

2- 2x12 by 16'
2- 2x12 by 20' (or a combo to add up to 20')
3- 2x4 by whatever lengths for the curbs.
maybe 100 feet of scrap 2x3's or 2x4's for wood stakes & props.
maybe 25' of 1x2's for curb bracing.
Having a dozen or so 30-36" steel stakes or even conduit, etc would be ideal to support the inside curb form.

IMO, the plywood braces can be way too complicated for a DIY'er.

As well, one of the biggest issues I see in novice concrete forming is "over forming", meaning re-inforcing temporary forms too well. There is a fine line between overkill & practicallity, which admitadly is hard to comprehend as a DIY'er. It's always good to remember when putting every screw, nail, form, brace, etc.... into place to ask yourself: How will I get this out when removing the forms? If it involves the curb forms, it needs to be light & quick so it doesn't cut into finishign time.

Also, IF there is a pro concrete guy involved in the slab pour & finish, I would recommend A) asking him how he wants it formed or
B) Let him form it himself the way he wan't it.

I can tell you as a pro, for a slab that size, I could form the 0-3.5" high curb adequately with one helper in less than an hour with all materials that I already carry with to every job.

PS, I REALLY AM impressed with the sketches Willie!
Once I choose a finisher, I will be def. communicating with him to discuss what he would like to see.

I do need to confirm with the county that blocks are ok.

I do believe so, I grew up in San Diego County, i have worked on and under a few homes that the sill walls were built up on block. I know live in Sonoma County and I have seen sill walls and full basements built on block. The potential garage is in El Dorado County, looking at the charts it has the same earthquake zone as Sonoma County (at least the west side of the county).

I have a phone call and a email into the building dept.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:52 PM   #63
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


Are you talking about something like a lintel clamp?
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:56 PM   #64
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


Willie T

In respects to the 2 x 6 or 2 x 8 walls - that is something I have not thought about.

If I go 2 x 6 I can space the walls 24'' o.c.

The reason I am apprehensive at the moment about that and most of it will come down to cost.

The garage is being built as a garage/workspace because the permits are cheaper do not have to have plumbing or septic to the garage.

The person who will use the garage wants to use it as a quilt room.

Want to build it with a small sill wall and have a slope in the garage so for someone else and when they ever go to sell it will be a true garage.

If and I am not sure a 2 x 6 wall is more money, I need to look at how much of a difference that will make when selling the house. My gut reaction is someone is not going to by a house because the 320 sq. ft garage has a 2 x 6 walls

What do you guys think?
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:58 PM   #65
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Are you talking about something like a lintel clamp?
To be honest with ya, dont know what a lintel clamp is, at least I do not reconize the name.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:07 PM   #66
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


To bring up the driveway, like I said in a earlier post I want to do a 24' x 20' driveway.

I wanted to dig down 10'' and compact the soil.

We are on a mix of mainly clay with large (8'' - 24'') pieces of granite.

Then put a layer of gravel and compact it - 6''

Then a 4'' slab 2500 psi

Draining away from the garage (not sure yet on the pitch)

I was going to put # 3 bars 18'' o.c. going both ways so I would have a bunch of 18'' x 18'' squares. The rebar would sit on chairs.

Or I am thinking about 10'' x 10'' wire mesh on 2 1/2'' dolbies with rebar near the perimeter 2 - # 3 bar sitting on chairs.

On the sides I was going to dig down 2 feet in down to six inches and this where the rebar would sit it the wire mesh

What does everyone think, open to thoughts positive and negative here to learn.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:14 PM   #67
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


#3 bar?
is that 3/8" diameter? seems light to me, but I am not where you are. We use 1/2" on 16" centers around here. or 24 o/c with mesh above it.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:20 PM   #68
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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#3 bar?
is that 3/8" diameter? seems light to me, but I am not where you are. We use 1/2" on 16" centers around here. or 24 o/c with mesh above it.
It's a 'pencil rod + one size'. I think they call it a "Seismic tie" or something like that out in California.
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Last edited by Willie T; 01-12-2010 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:09 PM   #69
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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#3 bar?
is that 3/8" diameter? seems light to me, but I am not where you are. We use 1/2" on 16" centers around here. or 24 o/c with mesh above it.
Yea it is 3/8''.

Maybe I need to bump it up to # 4 bar 16'' o.c. dont want to over do it but want to do it correct too.

Thanks all Mike
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:08 PM   #70
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


I'm getting ready to pour a slab for a 20' by 25' metal building in southern New Jersey. Do I have to go to the frost line, about 32 inches here, for a footing for a detached building? Is a floating slab an alternative?
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:03 PM   #71
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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I'm getting ready to pour a slab for a 20' by 25' metal building in southern New Jersey. Do I have to go to the frost line, about 32 inches here, for a footing for a detached building? Is a floating slab an alternative?
It depends on the building codes in your community but in most cases the answer to your question would be yes you have to go down to the frost line.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:45 AM   #72
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


I'll have to disagree with the poster above and say that for most DETACHED structures, you will NOT need to go below the frost line. But as said, your local codes will govern this.......
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:50 PM   #73
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Originally Posted by canyonbc View Post
To bring up the driveway, like I said in a earlier post I want to do a 24' x 20' driveway.

I wanted to dig down 10'' and compact the soil.

We are on a mix of mainly clay with large (8'' - 24'') pieces of granite.

Then put a layer of gravel and compact it - 6''

Then a 4'' slab 2500 psi

Draining away from the garage (not sure yet on the pitch)

I was going to put # 3 bars 18'' o.c. going both ways so I would have a bunch of 18'' x 18'' squares. The rebar would sit on chairs.

Or I am thinking about 10'' x 10'' wire mesh on 2 1/2'' dolbies with rebar near the perimeter 2 - # 3 bar sitting on chairs.

On the sides I was going to dig down 2 feet in down to six inches and this where the rebar would sit it the wire mesh

What does everyone think, open to thoughts positive and negative here to learn.

You need to bump up to at least 3000 psi for your driveway and better yet 3500psi.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:44 PM   #74
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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You need to bump up to at least 3000 psi for your driveway and better yet 3500psi.
You do realize that's a 4 year old post.......................

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