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Old 01-09-2010, 05:35 PM   #16
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Everyone new to concrete work thinks 'monolithic'. Be smart, and break this rather overwhelming (for a beginner) task into several stages. You will be glad if you do... and you will regret it if you don't.

The 'exploded' picture shows the most realistic way to tackle the job.

BTW...... Keep ALL rebar at least 2" away from the forms and the edges of the slab.... everywhere.
Good Point.

I am not sure yet, but realistically I am going to build the forms with a couple buddies and the finish work I will sub out.

In your experience and some one with out a ton of skill in concrete that if I were to sub out the finish work of the monolthically filled foundation that a novious can handle the 16 x 20 garage.

or

would you still recommend breaking it up.

If you break it up would you do the foundation and sill wall in one shot and the slab in another or break it up into three parts???'

Thanks
Mike

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Old 01-09-2010, 09:21 PM   #17
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


Doing the footing is not rocket science, and it requires no real skill. Basically, you dig a clean trench, install the rebar on wire 'chairs', and then pour it to a specific level. I can't tell you the thousands of feet of footings I've done by simply dragging and wiggling the backside of a flat shovel along like a boat.

The wall is next. You probably would want to hire a mason and a helper to do this for you. It needs to be straight, level, and smooth. Difficult for a novice to do.

You can install all the expansion joint yourself in a few hours. It simply nails into the wall with 'stub' nails.

You can also pour the wall yourself. No biggie here at all. Just order 'grout' mix, and not regular concrete for this. (That's important... they set up and cure differently)

Yes, by all means have a pro do your slab pouring and finishing..... although you can handle the slab prep yourself.

That's all there is to it. Of course you will have to learn the proper and legal ways to do some of this work, but that isn't hard. And everyone here will help.

So..............

1.- Dig trench
2.- Install rebar
3.- Pour footing concrete
4.- Lay block wall
5.- Fill block wall with 'grout'
6.- Nail on the expansion joint
7.- Prepare the slab (include all under-slab wiring and piping)
8.- Pour & Finish the slab

There are a few exact steps to follow in doing some of the things above, but that's the outline in a nutshell.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:44 PM   #18
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Everyone new to concrete work thinks 'monolithic'. Be smart, and break this rather overwhelming (for a beginner) task into several stages. You will be glad if you do... and you will regret it if you don't.

The 'exploded' picture shows the most realistic way to tackle the job.

BTW...... Keep ALL rebar at least 2" away from the forms and the edges of the slab.... everywhere.
This is how I have done it when I need to have the walls up higher. It's not that hard - as said, just encompasses a few steps. Getting the block walls straight and well squared is a biggie - because the whole building will only be as true and straight as they are.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:00 AM   #19
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


Well thanks everyone for the advice.

A lot to think about, have a few months to think about it.

Great advice and a few choices.

I will take pictures once the project starts and keep things going
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:10 AM   #20
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


May I suggest that now is the ideal time to do the most time consuming part of the job. And that is compiling and learning all the required knowledge and information. Your comment about "I will take pictures once the project starts and keep things going " is a little disturbing. Why? Because that's how most novices get themselves into deep trouble.

Just as we contractors do, you should have every single step of this project (and they are ALL projects) laid out clearly in your head as well as on paper. It is often too late once you've started to get workable answers. "Should haves and Could haves" hurt both the pride and the pocket book.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:07 PM   #21
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
May I suggest that now is the ideal time to do the most time consuming part of the job. And that is compiling and learning all the required knowledge and information. Your comment about "I will take pictures once the project starts and keep things going " is a little disturbing. Why? Because that's how most novices get themselves into deep trouble.

Just as we contractors do, you should have every single step of this project (and they are ALL projects) laid out clearly in your head as well as on paper. It is often too late once you've started to get workable answers. "Should haves and Could haves" hurt both the pride and the pocket book.

Hey valid point and i 100% agree to with you, i was not real clear but i am taking this time to make re make and finalize a game plan and budget for the whole project. I think i am atleast 14 months out right now. What i meant but thinking was figuring out what type of foundation and panel i want. Eith the pictures i meant once i start the project i will post pictures of the progress of the garage
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:23 PM   #22
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


WillyT,

That's a great drawing. Thanks for sharing. Does anyone know if it's drastically less expensive to build the stem wall with concrete blocks and then pouring them solid, vs. building forms and using poured concrete? Let's assume with a block wall, I'd build it myself, and with a poured wall, I'd hire the same guy doing the slab pour.

The former seems easier for DIY, but I'm not sure which method would yield a stronger wall and whether the cost differential makes it worth doing it myself. Thoughts?
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:41 PM   #23
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Originally Posted by TitaniumVT View Post
WillyT,

That's a great drawing. Thanks for sharing. Does anyone know if it's drastically less expensive to build the stem wall with concrete blocks and then pouring them solid, vs. building forms and using poured concrete? Let's assume with a block wall, I'd build it myself, and with a poured wall, I'd hire the same guy doing the slab pour.

The former seems easier for DIY, but I'm not sure which method would yield a stronger wall and whether the cost differential makes it worth doing it myself. Thoughts?
Thats a great question, I would like to add one thing on to it or one question to help expand.

I am not a foundation expert so please work with me here, I know there are 6'' 8'' 10'' 12'' and maybe larger and there is normal weight light weight, blocks for bond beams with rebar some use mesh between the rows.

I feel pretty confident to assume that there is different in how much weight each can handle and also the shear strength of each block.

For my situation, I am building a 16 x 20 garage but would it be different for a larger garage or a basement on a house or a basement with a two story house on top.

What I am getting at, is how do you know when to expand and to make TitaniumVT question more specific can you relate it to a 16 x 20 garage?

thanks,
mike
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:09 PM   #24
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


Stay cognizant of the fact that lightweight blocks should not even be considered when you are contemplating placing the load of an entire structure upon them. Use regular concrete blocks.

Next, concrete isn't cheap. And you are anticipating filling the entire 8" width of that 'formed' wall with the stuff. Filling only the cells in a block wall will require much less grout. (and 'grout' mix may be cheaper... I'm not sure) You could fill that block wall I drew in post #15 with only 3/4 of a cubic yard of grout... It would take about twice that much concrete to fill a wooden form of the same size.

Now you come to the cost difference in nothing but some blocks and mortar to make a wall, compared to buying, cutting, and fitting all the necessary 3/4" plywood, 2x4's, and nails for the necessary formwork to make a solid concrete wall. Remember, you're doing two sides to this formwork. Then, of course, you do have to know a fair amount of exactly how those forms are to be constructed. 3/4 plywood ain't cheap, and it's going to take a heap of 2x4's for "whalers" or more correctly, 'wailers', (lateral reinforcement), stiff backs, (vertical reinforcement), and diagonal bracing and anchor stakes to keep the formwork straight and plumb. Then you have the cost of "spreader ties" to keep the internal size of the form consistent to be considered. Formed walls also require more rebar than filled block walls.

Blocks ARE a 'form' in themselves. And all you do is pour them full of grout. No plywood, no bracing, no disassembly of the form afterward (you should not leave the wood in there) I honestly would recommend blocks as the better way to go for a simple structure like a garage.

Strength: I've built several hundred two-story houses on block foundation walls. Although only a few that way with basements. We really do very few basements here in Florida.
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:58 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Stay cognizant of the fact that lightweight blocks should not even be considered when you are contemplating placing the load of an entire structure upon them. Use regular concrete blocks.

Next, concrete isn't cheap. And you are anticipating filling the entire 8" width of that 'formed' wall with the stuff. Filling only the cells in a block wall will require much less grout. (and 'grout' mix may be cheaper... I'm not sure)

Now you come to the cost difference in nothing but some blocks and mortar to make a wall, compared to buying, cutting, and fitting all the necessary 3/4" plywood, 2x4's, and nails for the necessary formwork to make a solid concrete wall. Remember, you're doing two sides to this formwork. Then, of course, you do have to know a fair amount of exactly how those forms are to be constructed. 3/4 plywood ain't cheap, and it's going to take a heap of 2x4's for "whalers" or more correctly, 'wailers', (lateral reinforcement), stiff backs, (vertical reinforcement), and diagonal bracing and anchor stakes to keep the formwork straight and plumb. Then you have the cost of "spreader ties" to keep the internal size of the form consistent to be considered. Formed walls also require more rebar than filled block walls.

Blocks ARE a 'form' in themselves. And all you do is pour them full of grout. No plywood, no bracing, no disassembly of the form afterward (you should not leave the wood in there) I honestly would recommend blocks as the better way to go for a simple structure like a garage.

Strength: I've built several hundred two-story houses on block foundation walls. Although only a few that way with basements. We really do very few basements here in Florida.
Valid Point

A couple questions to expand on the block foundation.

For a 16 x 20 garage what size block would you use in Florida?

Do you guys use "bond beams" - but my terminology may be off there but they have a slot cut out the bottom so you lay a horizontal piece of rebar or do you use the wire mesh?

Mike
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:10 PM   #26
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


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Valid Point

A couple questions to expand on the block foundation.

For a 16 x 20 garage what size block would you use in Florida?
8" x 8" x 16"
Do you guys use "bond beams" - but my terminology may be off there but they have a slot cut out the bottom so you lay a horizontal piece of rebar or do you use the wire mesh?
That would only come at the top of a full wall... up where the roof starts. I'll draw you a picture of the blocks used to finish off the stem (foundation) walls.
Mike
BE a few minutes on the drawing....
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:13 PM   #27
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BE a few minutes on the drawing....
That would be excellent.

Thank you in advance.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:23 PM   #28
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???


Here is what we call a "Header Block". Other places may call it something different. A slab done this way is not the same as the purely "floating" slab shown in my previously posted drawing. This one locks into the block wall all around, and you then build on top of the slab.

The other drawing is designed to run a wall straight up past where the slab will end up. So you just butt the slab into the 'stem wall'. I prefer the way shown below.
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???-header-block.jpg   Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???-header-block-2.jpg   Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???-header-block-3.jpg  
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:41 PM   #29
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Here is what we call a "Header Block". Other places may call it something different.
So this is a way to tie the slab and the block together.

Because you have concrete on masonry do you need to put a buffer between the two like when you put a foam between sidewalk and a concrete slab?

The other question is for this garage I would like to have a 6'' high stem wall 6'' high when doing a concrete filled wall it was going to be 6'' wide.

Instead of using this header block do you use just a normal block up 6'' above Finished Floor?

What program did you use to draw that? That is awesome and really detailed.

What size block do you guys use in Florida?

Thanks again,
Mike
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:00 PM   #30
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So this is a way to tie the slab and the block together.

Because you have concrete on masonry do you need to put a buffer between the two like when you put a foam between sidewalk and a concrete slab? No. In this case you want to 'key' (or 'lock') the slab and wall together. Often a 90 degree bent piece of rebar is sunk into the wet wall grout, and left sticking out toward the soon-to be-poured slab as a permanent TIE-IN.

The other question is for this garage I would like to have a 6'' high stem wall 6'' high when doing a concrete filled wall it was going to be 6'' wide.
Not sure what you mean here. But you could easily lay 6" x 6" blocks on top to the slab after it is set up.

Instead of using this header block do you use just a normal block up 6'' above Finished Floor?
Regular block anywhere BELOW the header block. The wall extending above the slab will be laid directly on the finished slab... any width or height or type of wall you choose.

What program did you use to draw that? That is awesome and really detailed.
This is a FREE program called SKETCHUP.

What size block do you guys use in Florida?
8" x 8" x 16"

Thanks again,
Mike
Answers are in quoted text.
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Concrete Footings for a Detached Garage???-header-block-4.jpg  

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