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Old 10-08-2006, 01:45 AM   #1
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concrete bid sanity check


Hello,

I was just wanting to run a bid I received today by someone. I am having a local builder (rural Southern Colorado) assemble a 1700 sq ft log home on a crawl space and a errect a steel building. I request bids but they are not quantified. It just says things like all concrete work for foundation of log house $30,000.00 . I am having a mono slab for the metal building done 24ft x 52 ft 4" with a few 12" x 24 " footers estimated at $16,750.00 . I do not mind paying for things like a pump truck because access is not ideal and there is little competition here, but I do not want to get completely gorked either. I want the builder to make a profit but the concrete averages on the internet indicate a high side of $8.00 a sq foot which is half of my estimate. Maybe I should just have him stack the logs and speak to other concrete people about the foundation work.
I apologize if this is not the sort of thing I am suppose to post. This is a great website. I purchased my windows based on your discussions here.

Brandon

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Old 10-08-2006, 05:50 AM   #2
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concrete bid sanity check


All I can say is WOW!..I need to move to Colorado. The rate in Oklahoma fro similar work is $3.50 a sq/ft for flat work, just for comparison, and that is concrete provided...a pump truck will add another 50 cents a foot. If I were you, I would seriously consider seeking a few other bids, or consider checking with contractors 100 miles away. Building a home and a metal building may attract a contractor willing to suitcase it for a few months, and you definately are paying through the nose for the bid you have presented.

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Old 10-08-2006, 10:49 AM   #3
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Joasis,

Thanks for the advice. I probably will entertain some more bids. I am in the Trinidad area. I moved from Dallas and concrete work is more in line with what you priced out. I called and asked him how come he does not put down quantities and he doesn't normally do that because people will take it to other contractors. Do you know what that means? He said only on a cost plus estimate. Last I spoke I thought we were doing a cost plus estimate.
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Old 10-08-2006, 12:31 PM   #4
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I generally do not break down estimates unless I am doing labor only. Ask him for a quote based on labor and you pay the direct materials cost...he should be able to give you one number to form, lay steel and tie, pour, and finish the concrete...and he should have a per foot charge for digging the footings and pouring them if not done as a monolithic pour. I bet he will quote a few realistic numbers one you get a breakdown...
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:28 PM   #5
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I generally do not break down estimates unless I am doing labor only. Ask him for a quote based on labor and you pay the direct materials cost...he should be able to give you one number to form, lay steel and tie, pour, and finish the concrete...and he should have a per foot charge for digging the footings and pouring them if not done as a monolithic pour. I bet he will quote a few realistic numbers one you get a breakdown...
Joasis, I took your advice and just received a call back from the contractor. He said we could do it on a cost plus basis. I could pay for all the materials plus fuel. He charges $40 per man hour plus 20%. He said I may save some money that way. He said his bid may be high but does not know if there will be a deep dig or a boulder sticking out? The log stack is priced the same cost of material (joist, bracing etc.) , then $40.00 per man hour plus 20%. Crane rental, and stuff like that I would just pay for. What do you think?
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:47 PM   #6
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Still high, in my opinion. I would call other contractors in other areas and ask what the cost is per crew hour, not man hour, and ask how many guys are on a crew. For example, I run a crew of 2 guys with tools for $55 to $65 an hour, depending on whether they are working a commercial job site or residential. I would hate to pay for 4 guys on a concrete crew, when 1 runs the show, and the helpers are getting $10 an hour, and he is making $30 less expenses per hour off of you...see what I mean? 4 guys could cost you $160 an hour. The 20% over number is also high....most jobs quoted this way are cost plus 10%, and letting this guy so willingly run with a labor + 20% would be suicide on your budget...it sounds like he would make it cost nearly as much as the original bid.....I would get the estimate or bid firmly for the total price of the labor, or look elsewhere...if the contractor you are talking to can't give you a firm estimate, then he either doesn't have the experience, or he wants to make a ton off of you. Just my opinion.
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:39 PM   #7
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Still high, in my opinion. I would call other contractors in other areas and ask what the cost is per crew hour, not man hour, and ask how many guys are on a crew. For example, I run a crew of 2 guys with tools for $55 to $65 an hour, depending on whether they are working a commercial job site or residential. I would hate to pay for 4 guys on a concrete crew, when 1 runs the show, and the helpers are getting $10 an hour, and he is making $30 less expenses per hour off of you...see what I mean? 4 guys could cost you $160 an hour. The 20% over number is also high....most jobs quoted this way are cost plus 10%, and letting this guy so willingly run with a labor + 20% would be suicide on your budget...it sounds like he would make it cost nearly as much as the original bid.....I would get the estimate or bid firmly for the total price of the labor, or look elsewhere...if the contractor you are talking to can't give you a firm estimate, then he either doesn't have the experience, or he wants to make a ton off of you. Just my opinion.
Thanks Joasis I was thinking the same thing. He said it is himself and two others at the max. I think I only pay the 20% on the other guys and hopefully not himself. I will speak with another builder. The only thing I am afraid of is that if I use someone else for the concrete work he may say somethng like "well I can't guarantee the log home then because I did not do the foundation", or something of the sort. I really appreciate your help. Whereabouts in OK are you. I used to own a small piece of land in Dustin, OK if you know where that is ( on state Hwy 9 near Wetumpka. 20 acres I sold for 500 an acre. Can you believe that? Access was terrible though, just an old oil field that someone bought up and cut into small parcels. My wifes family is from Bartlesville, OK.

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Old 10-09-2006, 04:55 AM   #8
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concrete bid sanity check


I just had a slab poured for the foundation of a new home about 3 months ago. The house was approx. 2380 heated Sq. Ft. With the garage and back patio, the total was something like 3116 Sq. Ft. My price was just over $11,000. Your bid does appear to be quite high. I'm glad you are getting additional estimates.

I live in New Mexico.
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Old 10-09-2006, 06:45 AM   #9
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I am in North Central Oklahoma....you are not understanding the 20% overage....this is a number used to cover incidentals and expenses, including time, for contractors to use in a time and materials position. 20% is extreamly high...10% is acceptable, and if you go this way, remember, that number is the total of the job, all billed labor and all materials, plus the factor...so if your job was 100k, materials and labor, not only would you be paying this guy for his labor, and his crew, you will pay him another 20 grand as "profit"...now do you think it is a good deal? When I GC a project, I charge for my crews, and materials, etc...the 10% is standard, and covers my actual time ont he job for managing the project.
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:51 AM   #10
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I am in North Central Oklahoma....you are not understanding the 20% overage....this is a number used to cover incidentals and expenses, including time, for contractors to use in a time and materials position. 20% is extreamly high...10% is acceptable, and if you go this way, remember, that number is the total of the job, all billed labor and all materials, plus the factor...so if your job was 100k, materials and labor, not only would you be paying this guy for his labor, and his crew, you will pay him another 20 grand as "profit"...now do you think it is a good deal? When I GC a project, I charge for my crews, and materials, etc...the 10% is standard, and covers my actual time ont he job for managing the project.
Thanks Joasis. Yes I do understand it. I spoke with a builder this morning. He is a bigger outfit. He does not do cost plus. He wants to give me a bid in writing with a contract and stick with it. He does think the foundation price seems high.

NotSURE- thatnks for your input. Was your foundation a slab on grade or did you have a crawl space or basement?
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:51 PM   #11
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concrete bid sanity check


NotSURE- thatnks for your input. Was your foundation a slab on grade or did you have a crawl space or basement?[/quote]


The foundation was a slab poured on grade. There is no crawl space or basement. It is a rare thing for a home to be built with a basement here. There are some older homes in the area with basements or crawl spaces.

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