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Old 02-25-2010, 11:03 AM   #1
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Cold rooms


I have two rooms that are cold... they are heated rooms but they are still cold if you close the doors to them...

having fun trying to track this one down, maybe someone can help out...

The one room is on the west side of the house and the last room, and two sides are exterior walls... the walls are 2x6's with R-19 insulation in them... all the outlets have foam gaskets on them to keep air movement down from that point of view (when it was windy out you could feel the cold air moving if you look the plates off...) the ceiling is insulated with about R-30 of blown in insulation that room above it is a rafter type ceiling but no insulatuion, its an unfinished space so just a layer of blown in laying on the floor of that room... the basement below the room is finished and conditioned... has a drop ceiling and the walls have R-13 insulation in them however... the rim joists are not insulated at all... and I can feel cold air blowing in the drop ceiling when its windy out... which is odd in itself but there are no visible holes so they must be cracks where it gets in...

if you lay in this room at night it feels like cold air is droping from the ceiling down onto you... if you open the door into the rest of the house the feeling goes away....

there is a sliding door (about 76x80 inches) and a single window (about 34x40) but I don't feel any drafts coming from them or around them...


what am I missing? the other room is a similar setup the rest of the house is two story and doesnt have this problem

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Old 02-25-2010, 11:40 AM   #2
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Quote:
they are heated rooms but they are still cold if you close the doors to them...
How are they heated,..??

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Old 02-25-2010, 12:09 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
How are they heated,..??
Can't believe I left out that detail, they are forced air heat, and they do warm up fast but when the heats off thats when they start to cool very fast
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:16 PM   #4
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Cold rooms


Are there returns in the room, or just the heat vent?
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by hyunelan2 View Post
Are there returns in the room, or just the heat vent?
there is the equivilent of two returns... they but two side by side on one wall in the middle of the room

The room is 20X15 also

Last edited by BlueBSH; 02-25-2010 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:10 AM   #6
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Cold rooms


I really need to figure out why these rooms are so cold... last night I heated the house to 71 degrees because of high winds coming and cold with the latest storm we are getting now, after the furnance went off went to bed with the door closed... by midnight the room was only 50 degrees but in the rest of the house it was 68 still (our programmed thermostat at night drops the temp to a max low of 65 then heats)... and you could feel cold air moving again.... but it wasnt coming from the windows or doors... felt like it was droping from the ceiling
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:28 AM   #7
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Cold rooms


It sounds to me like you have an air leak. I don't know much more than that though. You could try the flame test - taking a match or candle and holding it up to the ceiling (not too close) and seeing where air is coming in to make the flame flicker. It's not going to fix anything, but might give you an area to investigate further.
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:29 AM   #8
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Cold rooms


Blown-in insulation doesn't stop air infiltration. With batts, you can see dirt around where the air is getting in. With your blown-in stuff, it might now be as obvious. Caulk around holes where wiring or plumbing passes through the attic.

Pop off some ceiling tiles and you might even be able to see the gaps.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:08 PM   #9
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should the upstairs atic of had a vapor barrier put down before the blown in? right now if I move any of the blown in insulation I can see the joists and drywall and nothing else, no plastic or paper barrier
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operagost View Post
Blown-in insulation doesn't stop air infiltration. With batts, you can see dirt around where the air is getting in. With your blown-in stuff, it might now be as obvious
What are you basing this statement on?


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Blown in cellulose insulation is 2-3 times denser than fiberglass insulation. Studies comparing Blown in cellulose insulation Vs fiberglass insulation show that cellulose insulation was 38% tighter and required 26% less energy. A Princeton University study shows, a group of homes with blown in cellulose insulation in the walls had an average of 24.5% reduction of air infiltration compared to fiberglass insulation, with only the walls insulated. A similar study, the Leominster MA Housing Project for the Elderly found that, a building with blown in cellulose insulation compared to a building with R-13 fiberglass batt insulation in the walls and R-38 fiberglass batt insulation in the ceiling, had 40% lower leakage. However, when it comes to air infiltration, sheathing and drywall are better air barriers than any cavity insulation. Air infiltration barriers such as high-density polyethylene membranes are installed for this specific purpose.
There should be a vapor barrier facing the warm room
Many older homes with blown in I have not seen a vapor barrier
My last house (1905) did not have one
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:09 PM   #11
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Cold rooms


Do you return air vents work? - Check to see if a tissue in front of them will be sucked toward the grill. Sometimes, the vents be blocked off either from original construction or alterations/remodeling along the line.

some times a supply with controls could look like a vent.

The the vents are not functioning, warm air cannot get in easily. Opening the door allows the return air to go elsewhere and the warm air to come in.

Just a thought.

Dick
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
Do you return air vents work? - Check to see if a tissue in front of them will be sucked toward the grill. Sometimes, the vents be blocked off either from original construction or alterations/remodeling along the line.

some times a supply with controls could look like a vent.

The the vents are not functioning, warm air cannot get in easily. Opening the door allows the return air to go elsewhere and the warm air to come in.

Just a thought.

Dick
They appear to be sucking air back into them when its running, although no where near as hard as it is closer to the furnance... this room is on the farthest end of the return duct
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:06 PM   #13
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Cold rooms


Try this: Find a thermometer which has a mid-range about the temp you want the room to be or the thermostat setting. With the unit running in heat mode, place the thermometer on any register, tape it if ceiling registers. Check at least one register in each room, one after another and record the readings. Is there a noticeable difference in the temps recorded between any registers? I don't know of a "home-made" way to check register velocity. Check the temp's at floor level and at the ceiling for the differential. What about the clearance under the doors when closed? Heated air forced into the room must be able to leave the room at the same rate. Air exchange ratio. IMO--no less than one-inch (1") of clearance under the closed door. Don't worry--the kids cannot peep through a 1" gap at the bottom of the door. Ask me how I know David
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
What are you basing this statement on?
"Now" should have been "not". Anyway, personal experience and photos from experts. Where there is air intrusion, soot in the air deposits on the insulation. Obviously, the absence of dirt doesn't mean there isn't air intrusion.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:09 PM   #15
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Cold rooms


any comments on the fact the attic floor does not have a vapor barrier? would this help at all or should it be there?

Some sites say there should be a 4-5 mil plastic vapor barrier there then blown in ontop of that

right now I have in the rooms ceiling up drywall then joists and the joists are filled with blown in and a little over that.. i think the insulation ruler they put in shows a R-30 to R-40 layer of insulation... depending on where its at... seems to be thicker towards the ends of the roof

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