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Old 08-02-2011, 02:43 PM   #31
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Cement Block Wall Footing


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Originally Posted by 99altrade View Post
and trying to bang them down (in already tamped/tight ground) to proper level with the 2x4's attached with nails that were too thin was a disaster. Kept coming apart from the 2x4's, nails were bending out, the wood stakes were cracking. And the 2x4's were 8' length, trying to connect and level all along a 20' length... pain. Just seems like I'm approaching the forms install all wrong.
Pounds the stakes in first, on the interior side of the footing (what seems like the wrong side) and nail through the stakes first, and into the 2x4's. Trying to pound stakes in with lumber attached is a PITA, especially with skimpy wood stakes. And remember, this is only extremely temporary forming it doesn't have to be pretty or tight, it just needs to give you a level platform to work off of, while saving a little concrete at the same time.

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Old 08-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #32
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Cement Block Wall Footing


Thanks for the reply!

Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're saying to pound in stakes first, and then (standing in center of footing) put the 2x4 OUTSIDE of the stake? Will than not interfere with a consistent straight footer (with stake cutouts every so often?), or does this not matter? Sorry if I'm not catching your point about interior, etc.

Also, I was going to pour the full footer all around and then create steps up a couple feet to concrete porch. It was suggested to me to instead form steps while forming footer and pour the steps at same time with footer, then just face it with my treads/riser veneer, instead of building the steps with blocks. Any input on which way to go on this?

Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
Pounds the stakes in first, on the interior side of the footing (what seems like the wrong side) and nail through the stakes first, and into the 2x4's. Trying to pound stakes in with lumber attached is a PITA, especially with skimpy wood stakes. And remember, this is only extremely temporary forming it doesn't have to be pretty or tight, it just needs to give you a level platform to work off of, while saving a little concrete at the same time.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:50 PM   #33
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Cement Block Wall Footing


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Originally Posted by 99altrade View Post
Thanks for the reply!

Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're saying to pound in stakes first, and then (standing in center of footing) put the 2x4 OUTSIDE of the stake? Will than not interfere with a consistent straight footer (with stake cutouts every so often?), or does this not matter? Sorry if I'm not catching your point about interior, etc.

Correct, and the stake cutouts will have zero negative effect on the footing.

Also, I was going to pour the full footer all around and then create steps up a couple feet to concrete porch. It was suggested to me to instead form steps while forming footer and pour the steps at same time with footer, then just face it with my treads/riser veneer, instead of building the steps with blocks. Any input on which way to go on this?

Thanks again!
I take it you're going to be pouring a patch between the existing stoop & the new wall with concrete after you build the wall? If yes, I'd form & pour the steps at that time. You can also build the steps with the block and veneer & cap them as well.
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:23 PM   #34
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Cement Block Wall Footing


Thanks again.

I have no existing stoop. Just a ditch prepped for footer, by the porch? See attached photos. One is my ditch, and the bottom 3 steps in the front of the other picture is what I'm trying to achieve (where the top of those steps is the porch - which will ultimately have pavers and bluestone caps). The wall I want to build will close around the steps like in that picture. I haven't created steps with block of concrete before so I'm not sure which way will be easier to go with.

Steps/wall will be built on footer which will be poured to slightly below grade.

p.s. more pics for perspective can be found on page 2 of this thread.

Thanks!

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I take it you're going to be pouring a patch between the existing stoop & the new wall with concrete after you build the wall? If yes, I'd form & pour the steps at that time. You can also build the steps with the block and veneer & cap them as well.
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Cement Block Wall Footing-steparea-medium-.jpg   Cement Block Wall Footing-steptobe-small-.jpg  
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:55 PM   #35
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Cement Block Wall Footing


I'll admit, I'm really confused now. I think it may be best, for your own benefit, to make a sketch of this with some dimensions so you have a little more direction as you build this. You say you don't have a stoop, yet there appears to be a concrete stoop in all of your pictures, which you've excavated around. Regardless, if you're having troubles forming the simple trench footing, you're going to be in for some serious frustration when you get to forming the steps to receive concrete.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:20 AM   #36
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Cement Block Wall Footing


The misunderstanding might have to do with how we're defining a stoop? Or...you mention it looks like I've excavated around a concrete stoop there on the short end of proposed wall. If you're referring to that exposed old concrete beneath the top few inches of porch - that's not an old stoop, but rather the old porch that I expanded and poured over with new concrete. Does that clear it up? In any case, I've decided to build the steps out of cmu's/blocks after I pour the footer all around. I am thinking it would be easier for me and provide a bit more flexibility as I lay the block wall. I'm figuring 6" blocks, and not standard 8" are the proper ones to use for building steps as risers would be too tall.

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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
I'll admit, I'm really confused now. I think it may be best, for your own benefit, to make a sketch of this with some dimensions so you have a little more direction as you build this. You say you don't have a stoop, yet there appears to be a concrete stoop in all of your pictures, which you've excavated around. Regardless, if you're having troubles forming the simple trench footing, you're going to be in for some serious frustration when you get to forming the steps to receive concrete.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:43 AM   #37
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Ok, footing forms completed. Pics in next post.

Question: I can figure how to generally lay the rebar around the floor of the footing. However I've seen a lot in photos setting up some vertical rebar coming out of the footer going through the block, and I've also seen a 2x4 used across center of footer length as a key for mortar to lock into. Is this something you do one OR the other or somehow both key footer AND insert vertical exposed rebar. Wall will be about 2' high on footer. If vertical rebar through footer: Do they set this up with precise calculations as to where blocks will be laid so rebar will fit blocks and not hit solid block instead of cavity, or do they just drill and epoxy in later, or not tied into footer and just dropped into wall and grouted? Thanks!

Next steps:

1) Setup and seat rebar/remesh (though I was going to have ready-mix add couple bags of fiber mesh to mix - still do remesh?). Once poured, allow to cure for a couple days.

2) Lay block.

3) Veneer wall.

Any opinions, insults , plow away....
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:44 AM   #38
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Cement Block Wall Footing


Pics. The form pushout at the turn in wall was to give bigger footer to lay pillaster/column-like corner on wall for better visual/architectual interest. I thought maybe I'd adhere 4" block flat against wall on both sides of corner as a pushout, make it several inches taller than rest of wall and give it an independent square cap, maybe with a light, etc.
Attached Thumbnails
Cement Block Wall Footing-porchforms-001-small-.jpg   Cement Block Wall Footing-porchforms-004-small-.jpg   Cement Block Wall Footing-porchforms-005-small-.jpg   Cement Block Wall Footing-porchforms-006-small-.jpg   Cement Block Wall Footing-porchforms-009-small-.jpg  

Cement Block Wall Footing-porchforms-010-small-.jpg  

Last edited by 99altrade; 08-09-2011 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:33 AM   #39
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Cement Block Wall Footing


You can set the rebar on broken brick, or just pull them up as you pour. 2-4" from the bottom. No need, or real benefit from either steel mesh or fibermesh. Save your money.

As for the vertical rod, yes you need to lay out ahead a little bit. This is going to be far easier to actually grab a block or two and take it in the trench with you to locate the rods. Trying to explain the process on the web won't be very efficient. If you have a decent hammer drill/rotary hammer, you can also lay one course through and then drill and pound the rods in. Don't bother with epoxy, you really have no concerns with uplift with a stoop like this.

Skip the keyway as well, as it works far better with a poured wall, and your dowels will be more than enough for this. As a matter of fact, 99% of block foundations for porches don't have any pilasters (grouted cells with rebar) here.

As for adding the additional 4" wythe for your column, you're on the right track. The the easiest way to do it. Just add a few galvanized wall ties between the two.

Good luck.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:49 AM   #40
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Cement Block Wall Footing


Drainage

Based on the pics above (which show the area that will be behind the footing and wall:

1) Should I be doing anything in advance of the footing pour to create drainage through the wall? I wasn't sure if I was going to, and then yesterday it rained and the trench filled 1/3rd or so with water, which drained fully within about 12 hours (then day of hot weather to dry the dirt). Made me concerned generally about drainage for the space behind. Some sort of through or below footing french drains? Or something else, or weep holes through cmu's at grade after build, etc.?

Thanks again!
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:03 AM   #41
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Cement Block Wall Footing


Bump on last question (see below, thanks).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99altrade View Post
Drainage

Based on the pics above (which show the area that will be behind the footing and wall:

1) Should I be doing anything in advance of the footing pour to create drainage through the wall? I wasn't sure if I was going to, and then yesterday it rained and the trench filled 1/3rd or so with water, which drained fully within about 12 hours (then day of hot weather to dry the dirt). Made me concerned generally about drainage for the space behind. Some sort of through or below footing french drains? Or something else, or weep holes through cmu's at grade after build, etc.?

Thanks again!
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:39 PM   #42
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Cement Block Wall Footing


Besides the drainage question above, if you have any knowledge about that, is it a good idea (and is there potential trouble with the strength of the footing running pipe through the footer like at 0:45 in this video:


Can use it to later run electrical or sprinkler flex tube through and behind wall.

Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
You can set the rebar on broken brick, or just pull them up as you pour. 2-4" from the bottom. No need, or real benefit from either steel mesh or fibermesh. Save your money.

As for the vertical rod, yes you need to lay out ahead a little bit. This is going to be far easier to actually grab a block or two and take it in the trench with you to locate the rods. Trying to explain the process on the web won't be very efficient. If you have a decent hammer drill/rotary hammer, you can also lay one course through and then drill and pound the rods in. Don't bother with epoxy, you really have no concerns with uplift with a stoop like this.

Skip the keyway as well, as it works far better with a poured wall, and your dowels will be more than enough for this. As a matter of fact, 99% of block foundations for porches don't have any pilasters (grouted cells with rebar) here.

As for adding the additional 4" wythe for your column, you're on the right track. The the easiest way to do it. Just add a few galvanized wall ties between the two.

Good luck.

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