Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-20-2010, 01:31 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11
Share |
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


I'll start by saying that if there is some document out there that outlines the answers to these questions, preferably in fairly plain english, by all means let me know.

I'm going to convert an attached carport into a garage. The garage will have power, but be an unconditioned space. It will involve framing two walls, with a small to medium sized window on each wall for sunlight, and a normal sized exterior door on one of the walls, and the third wall will mostly be garage door, the fourth wall being left mostly alone, as it is currently exterior house wall.

I think I have a handle on the basics of what will be involved, but the details are making me wonder.

The carport has a ceiling of plywood in place. One of the things I am wondering is if I need to, or should take that ceiling down before starting.

Another big question is where to place the wall framing in relation to the edge of the slab. The current posts are 4x4s, set at the edge of the concrete, directly on the concrete. I always heard wood to concrete is bad (but maybe that is only bad if it remains outdoors?), and if that is the case I'll be examining and probably replacing the posts that are there.

However, if the posts do not need to be replaced, then the question of where the wall actually should sit remains. If I frame the wall at the edge of the slab, that seems like the plywood, and sheathing and siding would all by hanging over nothing.


I'll be building the wall frames on the ground in 8 foot segments, along with the window/door rough in as needed.

I'll be attaching the segments to the concrete slab with powder actuated nails, so of course I want to get the positioning right the first time.

After the walls are framed I'll put up OSB, then some kind of sheathing. I have heard of boards that are essentially plywood with exterior sheathing built on, recommendations welcome. After that I guess its just a matter of putting on siding.

I'll probably use the stiff board style insulation, as I don't much like the roll in stuff.

If I have missed a major step, or need to be doing something differently, any advice is appreciated. In fact, advice of any kind related to this project is welcomed. I'll almost certainly be doing it all myself (except for tying in the wiring to the main box, and I'll probably pay to get the garage door installed once it is ready for one.)

It seems like there is probably some book or better yet online publication that describes the required, or best practices for this stuff, but I don't seem to be looking in the right places for it.
Tailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2010, 06:19 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 3,114
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


Carport pads are usually free floating, not attached to the house, as such, no good for walls that are attached to the house. ANYTHING attached to the house MUST have a footer. The wall between the garage and house can have no unsealed(and fireproof) openings. Doors must be fire rated as well as wall(5/8 firerated) coverings. NO windows. The house entry door threshold cannot be at the same level as the garage floor, must be higher.
Just Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2010, 02:02 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


Thank you Just Bill, that is good info.

It sounds like I have a good situation for doing this conversion so far.

The house entry is 22 inches above the carport floor.

You may be right about the foundation issue. It is certainly not as simple as a ranch all on one slab would be for me. The house is a split level, with a slab foundation on the far side (away from the carport) and the main level sits on blocks above a crawlspace. The carport slab appears (I looked hard to find any evidence that they are not attached) to be attached to this block crawlspace. The roof of the carport is a gabled roof, and is part of the existing roof. It also has a ceiling, and power to the ceiling already. It is very much as though the plan was to make it a garage in the first place, but at the last minute they didn't put in the walls. It is even the size of a normal 2 car garage (bigger than most carports I have seen).

The door already in place from kitchen to car port is a steel clad exterior fire door, so that should be ok. There are no other openings between the house and carport.

I am still learning the vocabulary, so I may completely misunderstand, but wouldn't the carport concrete slab constitute a footer?

I appreciate the information. Given these additional details, do you think this is a viable project?
Tailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2010, 02:11 PM   #4
remodeling pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,399
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


The posts definately should not sit directly on the concrete, but they will need to be moved or eliminated anyway, as the walls should be located so that the outer face of the plywood sheathing is flush with the edge of the slab. This allows the felt and finish siding to hang slightly below the seam for shedding water. I would build a wall section long enough to reach the existing post, install it, trash the post, then build the rest of the wall. Be sure to use PT for the bottom plate, and a generous bead of polyurethane sealant at the edge of the slab. Use a plumb bob to check the vertical alignment of the roof beam and the existing slab. Just placing the bottom of the wall in alignment with the slab and the top with the beams,usually results in out of plumb walls in my experience, as open carports tend to be pretty sloppily framed for the most part.

You will need to drill and use anchors for the walls, as shot fasteners are not allowed on exterior walls.

Be sure you have enough height for a garage door, particularly if you plan an electric opener, as many carports start out with lower clearances.

You don't say anything about interior wall finish, but if the plan is to leave the walls open, keep in mind:
Flammable insulation cannot be left exposed
NM type wire (Romex) cannot be used in open walls, you either will need conduit or a metallic sheath(Greenfield)

When finished, be sure to keep the grade low enough to discourage easy hidden insect(termite) entry.
troubleseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2010, 11:54 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


Quote:
Originally Posted by troubleseeker View Post
The posts definately should not sit directly on the concrete, but they will need to be moved or eliminated anyway, as the walls should be located so that the outer face of the plywood sheathing is flush with the edge of the slab.
That is what I have always heard. However, the one thing I never seem to hear is what you DO use to join concrete to wood. In the deck I made last year I used steel mounts inset into the concrete footings (wish I could recall what those were called), but how would that work when the slab is old and hard?


Also, thank you, that item about how far to inset the wall frame is one of the big questions I had on my mind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by troubleseeker View Post
Be sure to use PT for the bottom plate,
PT? Plastic tape? I'm kind of acro-clueless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by troubleseeker View Post
You will need to drill and use anchors for the walls, as shot fasteners are not allowed on exterior walls.
That is also good to know. I'm working my way through the monstrosity known as the Georgia building code, but I hadn't run into anything about that. I had indeed planned to use show fasteners, but if the 4 inch powder driven nails are no good, then I guess its have hammer drill will anchor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by troubleseeker View Post
Be sure you have enough height for a garage door, particularly if you plan an electric opener, as many carports start out with lower clearances.

The ceiling is 10 feet up, that seems plenty high for a normal garage, but that makes me wonder what the minimum height is for a garage?


Quote:
Originally Posted by troubleseeker View Post
You don't say anything about interior wall finish, but if the plan is to leave the walls open, keep in mind:
Flammable insulation cannot be left exposed
NM type wire (Romex) cannot be used in open walls, you either will need conduit or a metallic sheath(Greenfield)
I'll be using conduit to be safe in the interim. About the interior finishing, although I want to insulate and drywall, in the world of my being honest about how much I'll get done in the time and energy I have, it'll probably be unfinished for quite some time. Unless I get all energetic, I'll probably leave it open and uninsulated for a while unless it turns out to be way too cold in the winter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by troubleseeker View Post
When finished, be sure to keep the grade low enough to discourage easy hidden insect(termite) entry.
I am not clear on how the grade affects this, but in general I suspect bugs wont be a problem. The concrete slab sits about 4 feet above the ground at the minimum, and more like 8 at the back. The backyard is lower than the front, with a wrap around driveway around the carport down to the lower level.
Tailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2010, 01:09 PM   #6
remodeling pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,399
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


HD or Lowes and look at the post bases in the Simpson display. It is a bottom saddle that bolts to the concrete, with a platforn that sits inside to elevate the post.

PT is pressure treated.

You have no problem with the height. My reference was to making sure the header (or beam since this is currently an open carport) was high enough for a garage door(no problem), and that there would be enough height between the bottom of the header and the ceiling for the door track and mechanism. Sounds like you will probably have to build the height of the door opening down anyway.
Check out the prices on garage doors of taller sizes, and go with the taller size if budget allows; especially in these days of big SUV's and pickups with tall fiberglass shells on the bed.

No concern for insects with the slab that high. My thoughts were of typical slab on grade in my area where the house slab is only 6 or 8" above grade, thus the open carport would be usually right at grade, so when you installed a wall there would be no (or very minimal) exposed slab between the exterior finish and the ground, thus creating a hidden entry for termites.
troubleseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 03:12 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


I hope resurrecting this post after so long isn't bad manners around here, but now that I've finally worked through my queue of other projects aside from the HW flooring going in concurrently, I wanted to post some pictures, and additional details and questions to make sure I'm on the right track before I start shooting nails willy nilly.

Background info. I'm in Georgia, just north of Atlanta.

I was going to include the images in this post, but the pics are kinda big, not for the faint of modem.

Ten thousand words worth of pictures.

View of the ceiling, and (currently) one light.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5657.jpg

Another view of the plywood ceiling.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5656.jpg

Ceiling plus lattice (that's going to be torn out). The diagonal 2X4 leaning into the corner isnt structural, or even attached.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5655.jpg

More detail on the inside ceiling and current lattice. This 2X4 is also just leaning there.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5654.jpg

A view of the front openning, including the lovely "attached largely via caulking", is the -occassionally- motion activated light. Soffit boards falling out and other fun stuff. The bottom lip of this openning is 8'6".

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5653.jpg


The door into the carport+main floor attic. I've never looked in there. I assume something is waiting to eat my face if I do. However, now that I no longer need my face as much as i used to, I'll be getting up there and taking some pics tomorrow to see what I'm dealing with up there. The real question is, is there ANYTHING I could find, that would indicate that I should just leave the plywood ceiling in place and frame the walls directly to it? My wishful thinking gland thinks that would be just great, to not have to tear down the existing ceiling. I want to do this right, but if that is compatible with not making it a bigger job than it has to be, I am all over that.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5651.jpg


The best looking siding on the whole house (since it's never been exposed to much of the elements).

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5650.jpg


A shot of the outside rear of the carport, where some of the lattice has been ripped off to show what it looks like under there. Also to show the way the posts go below the current surface of the concrete. Makes me wonder just how deep the wholes should be and thus how long the fasteners (planning to use red head wedge type fasteners to anchor the sole plate.) 6 inches sounds like a lot, but given that 1.5 is lost to the wood, and with this extra surface of concrete, I find myself wondering if its really more like totally inadequate and I need to look into 10-12" fasteners of some kind. Advice here would be great!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5647.jpg


a slightly different angle and stepped back view of the same thing.


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5646.jpg



a view of the front, including all the random stuff currently residing in the carport. Looking at this picture makes me feel like an idiot, since I would have sworn that the carport shared the roof with the main part of the house. Clearly that isn't the case, and I guess I would have known that long ago if I had peaked into the attic. It may share attic access some how though, since I have looked at every inch of ceiling on the main floor, and been all over the top roof attic and seen no other way to get into the main floor attic.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...t/IMGP5645.jpg



So anyway, based on these pictures. I need to know how much tearing out it looks like I need to do before I could put up walls. If its a lot, I may have to back burner it again, and I'd love to get it done so my shop can stop being strewn across the basement.

Actually, I'm open to any thoughts or advice about this particular conversion, as it will be the biggest single thing I've done to this house. Even if the advice is "don't do it" as long as you have a good reason to back that advice up, I'd like to hear it.

If I should take any additional pictures, let me know.

Thanks,


Tailor

Oh yeah, lastly, not to hijack my own thread, but anyone happen to know if the new vinyl siding is really comparable to hardie plant/panel (aside from fire resistance) in wear and ability to stay looking good? My siding is in sad shape, but I haven't wanted to redo it until I do this conversion so I can do it all at once. Some folks (not sales people, since whichever I go with it will be me installing it) I have talked to have talked up vinyl pretty hard. On the other hand I rarely hear of a house NOT selling because it had fiber cement siding though. However, the idea of NEVER painting is so appealing it almost hurts. Your thoughts on the current relative merits would be appreciated.

Last edited by Tailor; 03-18-2011 at 03:15 AM. Reason: location info.
Tailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 09:49 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 92
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


After seeing those pictures, you are good to build walls without footings.

Use treated 2x4s for the contact with concrete. You should have no issues. You are not at ground level so no reason for footings, but if you feel unsure about it, line the outline with concrete block (normal garage construction in the midwest) and build the walls on that.
pjordan4477 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 08:20 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


Any thoughts on how best to join the new frames to the existing structure? I took a peak inside the attic last night and the carport and main floor do share an attic (and the carport side has literally no insulation, which makes me wonder if thats hurting my heating costs).

Do I need to rip that plywood roof down, or can I just drive nails through it into the joists?

Also, I've been advised to make the new wall frames a bit big, so its a real fight to get it in there, on the theory that if its a really tight fit it will do a better job of supporting the carport roof when I remove the old 4x4's. Does this make sense?
Tailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:47 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 92
Default

carport conversion, need some details.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailor View Post
Any thoughts on how best to join the new frames to the existing structure? I took a peak inside the attic last night and the carport and main floor do share an attic (and the carport side has literally no insulation, which makes me wonder if thats hurting my heating costs).

Do I need to rip that plywood roof down, or can I just drive nails through it into the joists?

Also, I've been advised to make the new wall frames a bit big, so its a real fight to get it in there, on the theory that if its a really tight fit it will do a better job of supporting the carport roof when I remove the old 4x4's. Does this make sense?
Are the old 4x4s rotting? I wouldn't remove them if they aren't.

You can leave the plywood up and shoot more insulation up there (cutting and access hole from underneath), if not I'd tear it down and replace it with drywall, and leave a door for getting up there. Then of course, insulate it.

You do want the wall tight, floor to ceiling.
pjordan4477 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carport Conversion Maricopa County AZ zken Building & Construction 5 04-06-2010 05:48 PM
Converting carport into a room troybliss Remodeling 8 08-14-2009 10:43 PM
noobie question about carport conversion emmalito Building & Construction 2 03-24-2008 11:26 PM
conc slab inside/under a enclosed metal carport blthomas Building & Construction 3 02-01-2008 09:18 AM
Converting Carport to Garage viking1974 Building & Construction 2 08-12-2007 10:38 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.