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Old 08-28-2007, 08:21 PM   #1
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Can somebody explain to me...


why it is so difficult to get an estimate to fix somebody else's shoddy work?

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Old 08-28-2007, 08:31 PM   #2
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Can somebody explain to me...


Is it fair to say you may have ... well.. an attitude? You have not gotten over the somebody done you wrong song.

even with Jesus as the master carpenter the work will take too long, cost too much, and not be good enough.

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Old 08-28-2007, 10:09 PM   #3
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Can somebody explain to me...


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Is it fair to say you may have ... well.. an attitude? You have not gotten over the somebody done you wrong song.

even with Jesus as the master carpenter the work will take too long, cost too much, and not be good enough.
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:17 PM   #4
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little confused and think I'm missing something, why would you say that he has an attitude? Or not getting over the carpenter done me wrong era? I have had clients tell me that they are suprised I showed up considering I was the 20th call within a week and first to come and she was a polite woman whom was very respectful gave me the job, completed work, paid in full with many thanks.

Kraze..
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:21 PM   #5
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Can somebody explain to me...


Have you been hired to come in after someone has done work for the homeowner and tried to complete it?

If you havent, dont ever do it.
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:55 PM   #6
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Can somebody explain to me...


If a customer talks bad about a previous contractor its normally a guarantee for trouble.
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:08 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by HomeImpCons View Post
why it is so difficult to get an estimate to fix somebody else's shoddy work?
This is a pretty general question. I would have to guess it is because the contractor has no idea how to begin. How do you fix something that was done wrong and what else is wrong? If you walk into a job that someone else did and it was not done right by just looking at it what the heck are you going to find when you really start looking.
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:26 AM   #8
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Can somebody explain to me...


I think repairs are generally difficult cause the home owner usually don't want to spend double, which may be the easiest way to fix somebody else's shoddy work. So I think a lot of contractors would rather do work from scratch... so if you are able to position it as a "start over" job, you'll probably get better responses...
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Old 08-29-2007, 05:48 AM   #9
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Reasons #1, #2, #3:

A "smart" contractor doesn't want to "inherit" someone elses bad work.

When a Client calls in a contractor to look at a job (or jobs) poorly done by a "hack", that contractor can only inspect and see the surface results of the Hack's work.

Generally, their first reaction is to "cringe", then to analyze all that could also be wrong that cannot be seen by just the surface inspection. The result is alot more cringing and apprehension about undertaking the task, because ot the "possibilites" of how much more corrective work may be involved.

#1: You see, once a contractor commits to attempting to fix the hack work, he or she, is agreeing to take on that job and to fix whatever needs to be fixed. Once they "touch" the job, they now in affect "own" that job. Whatever happens, it now becomes their "Problem job", their name is "on that job". (So: If they have plenty of other "non-problem" jobs lined up, why would they want to take on a problem job?)

#2: Additionally, 90% of the time: To fix a "Hack Job" will cost more than the original amount the Client paid out to the Hack, to do it (do the messed up work).
In fact, it is not unusual for the corrective work costs to amount to MANY times more, than the original job pricing (to get it to what it should be or what it should look like).
Thus, the point is that there are not too many client's out there that are eager to fork over "more money" for a job that they have already paid someone else to do (the Hack).
They usually want it fixed for a "cheap amount" (who wouldn't?)
Connected to this: It's a sad reality that the majority of times that a Hack is able to get into a job and perform their "shoddy work" is because they had the "lowest bid". So, sometimes the Client does not have the money that is required to fix the work. Sometimes a contractor may hear: "Well, just see what you can do to get it to look right"....
If a reputable contractor is called in to fix a poor job, he or she will be more concerned about actually getting it to BE right, and that costs $$$.

#3: As mentioned, such Clients that have been "taken advantage of" are usually pretty upset, distrusting of other contractors and can have a complacent and demanding attitude (which is all understandable under the circumstances)....But that will also cause the "thinking" contractor to shy away from doing the repair work, since they are not "therapists", and don't want to deal with the possibility of extra emotional issues, while doing their jobs.


For such reasons, as well as others, the "smarter" contractors tend to R-U-N from "problem jobs" performed by Hacks.
There just is no telling exactly what the total ramifications will be for a new contractor once they "touch" that bad work.

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 08-29-2007 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:08 AM   #10
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Can somebody explain to me...


ok I see, with the more detailed explaination I can understand where your coming from, so it was basically a guess that his attitude over the phone to the contractors might have sent off red flags......understood

Most of my work is coming in from behind "hacks", and yep it cost more. The woman I mentioned before that was what the work was all about, is fixing shaddy work.

I dont' exactly agree with you with calling a contractor such as myself dumb for fixing someone elses work however. "A "smart" contractor doesn't want to "inherit" someone elses bad work. "
you have to remember that our field there are alot of crooks that take advantage and then there are alot of clients as well, I say for every 1 to 1. But what do you expect a client's attitude to be when they get ripped off for thousands of dollars from a contractor whom presented themselves as professionals. I seen this too many times, Personally american values have greatly deminished, why? soo many answers out there. That is why I went on my own, I couldnt' stand the way the contractors I worked for treated clients. I been ripped off by clients for lots of money, but I dont' hold that against my next one. Clients have to be treated as "uneducated" not dumb or stupid, if they knew how to do your job you wouldnt' be there doing it.

"If a customer talks bad about a previous contractor its normally a guarantee for trouble." ...................this is definityl a sign,and I see what your trying to say BUT! I see it as this, If I was a shaddy contractor this is whom I'd avoid. A good reliable contractor would love to have this type of client. I have had alot of these people, matter of fact its my preference...why? Well it means they talk alot, and if you satisfy what they expect, which should all be in writing no matter how small unless your willing to do it for free, then their love of talking will turn into positive talking. I cant' count the many times I have gotten referals from people like this. Of course I live in the show me state, I dont' believe any's word for bad work, but let me tell you what...OMS, when they call me all pissed and I come in, I really do feel for them, Then I always ask the question...how much did you get conned out of? And its surprising the money these people give these contractors for work unperformed.
"This is a pretty general question. I would have to guess it is because the contractor has no idea how to begin. How do you fix something that was done wrong and what else is wrong? If you walk into a job that someone else did and it was not done right by just looking at it what the heck are you going to find when you really start looking." ............ absolutly correct, and let me point out this is simply more profit for me, for example see this electrical picture, this is example of bad work. I will be redoing this, and the client lost out on $800.00 and heres the kicker the guy that did this was a "LICENSED" electrican. Was the client mad...HELL YEAH! do I think he is wrong for thinking so? Hell no! IF i was an electrician I beat him down for making my profession look bad. Its hard figuring this stuff out, but because alot of contractors don't know where to start this is my nitche, and I get paid well for doing it cause I'm the only one to show. I have never had a client bad mouth my work, and I send out surveys to show they are satisfied. Yes I have had issues dealing with clients, but with a good easy to understand contract and reviewing the details with them they always understand, least anyone I worked with has.
"I think repairs are generally difficult cause the home owner usually don't want to spend double, which may be the easiest way to fix somebody else's shoddy work. So I think a lot of contractors would rather do work from scratch... so if you are able to position it as a "start over" job, you'll probably get better responses..."...............I totally agree with you on this as well, I thought about it and perhaps Im reading the question wrong, he said "fix" and I was actually thinking come in and re-do...I came in different jobs somethings are totally wrong, some things are right but little misplaced. I'm experienced in both and use my skills to determine if I would "warranty" his work if I decide to build upon it. The client spending more money is their negligence for not doing their homework on that particular contractor, I find alot of them are lazy when doing this because its not important, but once reality hits and they have to pay it out twice, I can almost guarantee that they will be more aware to do their homework the next time. I mean like I said alot of my clients call me to fix shoddy work so I always get the angry customer who don't trust me, I just don't take it personal.
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:48 AM   #11
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Can somebody explain to me...


but to answer your question. Are you willing to get past the fact you got screwed? or are you willing to pay the money to get it done correct, that means if its not fixable to have it torn out and redone, and paying if not twice but 3 times the cost? Or are we wrong and your actually having problems with anyone actually coming out to see it? What exactly is the work? are you miles out in the middle of nowhere? Perhaps its such a small job its not worth it for couple bucks, us contractors are tight on schedules, Right now the good contractors are out scheduling work for the upcoming winter, thats the security blanket we need to survive the slow times. If its small, your work will be better addressed if its small during these slow times. I know contractors, especially roofers, who get backed up for months and cannot possibly schedule the "I need it right now" customer. Does your job require a special skill such as elecrical or plumbing, or is this a job the DIY'r or Handyman can fix.
If its small job for handyman, perhaps you can put ad in your local paper or a flier on a community board. get references, do your homework, and perhaps check out if they are bonded/insured. Don't trust them to give you the paper, call the company itself. Buy the materials yourself off his list, and pay him once your done. P.s. permits are good if required to ensure proper installation.

Kraze..
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:02 PM   #12
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Can somebody explain to me...


and after the new "good" job is done, some people will try and sue the "bad" hacker... then drag the good one to court to appear as a witness... Who needs it.
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Old 08-29-2007, 01:17 PM   #13
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and after the new "good" job is done, some people will try and sue the "bad" hacker... then drag the good one to court to appear as a witness... Who needs it.

yeh I can see that, I have actually been asked to. But I politely decline, I just tell them to take pictures of the work before I work on it then after and submit it to the courts, But I wont' get personally involved, at least so far in my career I havne't. If I do decide to get involved it would be at a cost. I'm not sure what I would do if I got served papers to go to court, I guess I would have to go but offer no opinions on the work involved, I dont' know, I dont' really know if they would be allowed to supenoed me to court for something such as this. perhaps with this thought I should have a cost included in my contracts that highlights a per hour charge should I get supenoed to court. Something to think about i'm sure, my lawyer should know.
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:04 AM   #14
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AtlanticWBConst.—Thank you very much for your lengthy reply. That’s exactly what I was looking for, an explanation, and I appreciate your taking the time to go into such detail.

Kraze—I like your attitude. Kudos to you for understanding exactly what the homeowner is feeling and how to deal with them. I especially appreciate your comment, “Client’s have to be treated as “uneducated” not dumb or stupid, if they knew how to do your job you wouldn’t be there doing it.”

When you hire a licensed professional, there is a reasonable expectation that you’re getting a qualified professional. If I hired my next door neighbor to do the work, and the job turned out poorly, I would chalk it up to a bad experience and next time hire a professional. Part of the reason for hiring a licensed professional and paying out large sums of money is in the event something goes wrong, at least you have a leg to stand on. It should buy you peace of mind that the job will be done right.

To fix my job, I wouldn’t care if it took three years to get it done right and the good guy did the job on days he had no work or during slow times, provided, however, I’m not left without windows in the middle of winter, if you know what I mean. And I wouldn’t care if it cost me three times the amount of money of the original job if I was guaranteed the work would be done professionally, BUT since I already paid the “hacker” for the job, why shouldn’t I go after him? In order to go after the guy, I need to calculate my damages. How do I find out what my damages are without getting an estimate to fix it?

I’ve had contractors make appointments and not show up, which angers me since I lose vacation time to try to accommodate them. I’ve been honest when I first make the call and explain my situation and why I need an estimate. They come out, look at the job tell me everything that’s wrong, tell me they’ll send something then nothing shows up. Initially, I was angry when I called one guy who told me they don’t get involved in problems like this, but at least he was upfront and didn’t waste my time. I had one guy come and when he left he said, “Give me a call if I can do anything for you.” I think I called him for an estimate.

Big Bob & Cole—I understand your comment. I’ve met people like you describe (nothing is good enough), but trust me when I say that isn’t the case here. Would love to go into detail, but this isn’t the time or place. I will tell you, however, that the building inspector rated this job a 5 out of 10. Another contractor, who I called for an estimate, said, “This is not a professional job. These guys are from the bottom of the barrel.” I had another guy say, “I feel bad for you people.” I am not saying my job is the worst, but I think for what I paid, I deserve better. It should at least pass inspection, wouldn’t you say?

I may have an attitude because I am frustrated. Some of the defects are serious, and I’m simply trying to get it fixed.

Bigchaz—No comment.

WarnerWW—I appreciate your taking the time to comment.

Slakker & Crackers—Why SHOULD the homeowner pay double? I have no problem with the fixer being paid a fair price so why aren’t more contractors willing to provide estimates so homeowners can recoup costs from the “hacker?” Going back to Kraze’s “educated” comment, if, in your professional opinion, you think it needs to be a “start over” job, price it as such in your estimate and let the homeowner do what he’s going to do. Include a court fee, if necessary. Many guys offer free estimates. In cases like this, I’d gladly pay a reasonable fee. I’m frustrated because I can’t even get an estimate, small or large!
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Old 09-01-2007, 10:54 AM   #15
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Can somebody explain to me...


HomeImpCons,

Thank you for your reply post above. Rude is rude and there is no excuse for no show appointments of any kind. My post, with an economy of words, attempted to answer your very proper question "why it is so difficult to get an estimate to fix somebody else's shoddy work?". I am glad AtlanticWBConst had an opportunity to provide a detailed eloquent reply.

The fact is, I am not one of those smart contractors described above that stays away from problem jobs. I have performed insured loss restorations for over 20 years, and have picked up the shattered pieces left behind by many contractors that thought they could handle the special requirements to perform the restorations properly.

( You have every right to be upset..)

If I may make some recommendations: First try to work this out with the "hack". (can he hire a cracker jack sub that can bring the project to the 9 or 10 you thought you were paying for)?

If things have gone to far for that: Call your insurance agent and ask for a contractor referral. Be sure to name drop when you call the contractor.

Don't ask for a hard price estimate upfront. Work out a high and low price, with a detailed line items as performed invoice to follow completion. Get a meeting of the minds.

I am located in NE FL. Send me a PM if I can help.

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