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-   -   Can plastic zip ties be used to join rebar? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/can-plastic-zip-ties-used-join-rebar-68038/)

walkman 03-31-2010 04:58 PM

Can plastic zip ties be used to join rebar?
 
Or tie together mesh for a slab?

Daniel Holzman 03-31-2010 05:11 PM

You can use any method at all, including welding, tieing with plastic, tieing with steel, or glueing, to hold the bars in position, as long as the material you use does not chemically interact with the concrete. And plastic is inert, so it is fine.

Bob Mariani 03-31-2010 07:03 PM

I would suggest that they are not strong enough to withstand the force of placing the cement. There is no good reason not to use the metal tie wire meant for this purpose.

Leah Frances 03-31-2010 07:46 PM

I haven't tied re-bar in years (like 17!:eek:) but I think even still I would be faster with wire than I would be with plastic ties.

Gary in WA 03-31-2010 09:25 PM

Only if it is not inspected. Re-bar overlap lengths, 5 twists ?, tie-wire placement spacing, tight radius bends on 90's, elevated distance or on dobies or chairs not bricks, etc., sometimes checked for residential, always for commercial around here.... If you have a lot of it...... http://www.toolfetch.com/rebar-tiers-rb655.shtml

Be safe, Gary

nap 03-31-2010 09:55 PM

Oh, those are sweet when they work.


But if those are not realistic, I strongly recommend one of these:

http://www.traderscity.com/board/use...ing-tool-1.jpg

takes a little getting used to but so much better than a pair of pliers.

Big Bob 03-31-2010 10:02 PM

I assume they still make the looped at both end tie-wire ties to be used with the hooked (thing-ama bob) that you pull tight and spin...
dang I used to know what that was called.

very fast.. got to be way cheaper than the fancy tool GBR linked.
also should be much easier than zip ties.. and I know meet the codes and
all the pulling and tugging wire mesh and rebar can be subjected too.

Cross post thing: Nap posted a pic.. ones I used had a straight hook though...still buried in the old concrete tool box ...I think...

Termite 03-31-2010 10:19 PM

Big Bob they still do make that tool and most concrete crews do use them.

There's NOTHING in the code that mandates the use of wire to tie rebar, at least nothing I've ever read.

From an inspection standpoint, anything but tie wires SCREAMS amateur work. I've seen people use insulated electrical wire, and I assure you that the inspection was more thorough than it normally would have been because it speaks to the knowledge of the installer....Or potential lack thereof.

Personally I'd say it would work just fine, but there's no reason not to tie your rebar with accepted methods. No need to re-invent that wheel.

nap 03-31-2010 10:46 PM

actually, if the rebar is being used for a Ufer ground, I believe actual bare tie wire is required. Not positive but I believe it to be correct.

Bob Mariani 04-01-2010 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap (Post 422500)
actually, if the rebar is being used for a Ufer ground, I believe actual bare tie wire is required. Not positive but I believe it to be correct.

This applies more for commercial work. And when used as such (which is ofter done) the ground is cad welded, so even a better connection is required.

nap 04-01-2010 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Mariani (Post 422557)
This applies more for commercial work. And when used as such (which is ofter done) the ground is cad welded, so even a better connection is required.

it is very applicable to resi IF there is adequate rebar in the foundation. The code has removed the option of using the foundation as a grounding electrode and makes it mandatory as long as it meets the requirements stated within the code which defines such an electrode as:

Quote:

encased in at least 2 inches of concrete, in direct contact with the earth, containing at least 20 feet of 1/2" or larger rebar that is electrically conductive or at least 20' of at least #4 bare copper conductor.
and I'm not speaking to bonding the GEC to the rebar. That MUST be bonded using an approved means which is going to be either cadweld or an approved connector. Tie wire is not and probably never has been an acceptable means of bonding the GEC to the rebar in the foundation.

I was speaking only to rebar to rebar ties. Somewhere in my life I have learned that tie wire is an acceptable means to bond each rebar to another.

Oh, here it is:

Quote:

250.52(A)(3)


rebar shall be allowed to be bonded together by the usual steel tie wires or other effective means.
Unless you can get an inspector to agree that zip ties are an "effective means" it is not code compliant. I can tell you, it is not considered an "effective means" in the areas I work in and neither is insulated wire. There have been some guys that have tried such things.

Bob Mariani 04-01-2010 05:24 PM

I think we are all in agreement that the OP's idea is not needed, not good workmanship and even non compliant with codes.

rustyjames 04-01-2010 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman (Post 422312)
You can use any method at all, including welding, tieing with plastic, tieing with steel, or glueing, to hold the bars in position, as long as the material you use does not chemically interact with the concrete. And plastic is inert, so it is fine.

Dan, with all due respect, from the information I've seen, most of the rebar available in the US shouldn't be welded. Every project that I've worked on welding or heating the bar was not permitted. However, I suppose for residential applications it would be OK.

nap 04-01-2010 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Mariani (Post 422818)
I think we are all in agreement that the OP's idea is not needed, not good workmanship and even non compliant with codes.

I think we were in agreement before you attempted to correct me on the code and the requirements of a Ufer system.:wink:

walkman 04-02-2010 02:52 PM

Okay. I have hundreds of those plastic zip ties lying around -- but I'll buy some more wire.


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