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Can I Remove this Wall?

5K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  ryanxo 
#1 ·
Hey everyone.

I want to take out a wall in the middle of my house and I want everyones opinions on whether it is load bearing or not due to conflicting information I have read online.

My house is 1546 sq ft including the garage.
Here is a drawing of the layout I drew up in paint.


As you can see I want to make the living room and den 1 big room!
My house is factory truss built. Each is made with 2x4s and those metal plates with the long metal fingers into wood on each side.
The trusses are 23" on center apart in the attic for the whole length of the house.

Here are pics I took....

Trusses in attic... Please excuse the mess I am redoing ductwork as well.


More of the truss



Bottom of one of the truss connection points:


More truss



Pic from above the wall I want to remove. The truss is nailed to that wall but I can see light underneath to the other side.



For the record I work at the engineering command for the navy and asked a structural engineer for their opinion and got a response. I just want to get more opinions from some other guys who might know their stuff.

Thanks in advance!
 
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#2 ·
That is not a bearing wall. That is one advantage of a truss roof. Feel free to remove it. Be careful when removing the wall as it appears the framers put 2 toe nails through the truss and into the top plate of the wall. You just don't want to yank the top plate out and possibly rip the nails through the bottom chord of the truss damaging/splitting it. Good luck on your project !
 
#4 ·
Please do not take the advice on this from any one on a forum who can not see it.

Once before we had this question and everyone (including me) figured it was not load bearing, he did have someone look at it and it WAS LOAD BEARING!!!!
So glad he had someone come look at it in person.
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
loadbearing?

Your pictures bring up some questions. In my area a truss should not be nailed to a non bearing wall. We would use a 1x4 top plate so the truss would not touch the wall. A clip would be nailed to the truss and the top plate giving the truss a small amount of movement up and down but not sideways. With that thought I would say your wall is weight bearing BUT IF it is a bearing wall then there should be a member in the truss straight up from the wall to the top of the truss, this would be a three point truss meaning it would rest in three places where a two point would be on the outside walls only. Can you tell if there is a footing under that wall? Footing equal bearing. Worst case if its bearing have a engineered beam made to support it. I say engineered because it would be smaller then a 4x16 beam
Which is what it would probally take for a 16 foot span.
Then again how lucky do you feel LOL

Rick
 
#9 ·
Regardless of whether or not the studwork is carrying any load from the truss (probably not, but we don't know for sure) could it be a shear wall providing some lateral stability against wind- and seismic loads? It seems to be in line with the wall at the back of the garage which suggests it might - just a thought.
 
#10 ·
LOL. Tony, I was going to add similar to my statement this morning, you beat me to it! Here is basic shear-flow for a 90MPH wind zone; http://www.awc.org/pdf/WFCM_90-B-Guide.pdf Many times the S.E. will make an existing wall sheathed with plywood/osb for new shear-flow when removing an interior wall, just what Tony is saying. Check with the local AHJ, when you apply for the permit to change the structure. You may also need more truss bracing to meet current code which may be required with the wall removal.

The longer the bottom plate length, the better the racking resistance; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fplrp439.pdf

Gary
 
#13 ·
Thanks for all the responses.

The SE said that it was not load bearing especially since the trusses were only 23 inches apart on center across the entire house.

Footing? I don't think I have footings I'm on a slab that is flat on the ground.

I have never heard of a sheer wall.

The truss being nailed to the wall worried me a bit too but the SE just told me to be careful taking out the wall since there were nails from the truss to that wall. He didn't seem concerned. The architect said I could take it down no issue too.

So mae-ling... you said you would answer after I said what the SE said. Whatcha got?

And btw I wasn't going to take the wall down solely on the advice of people on a forum. I asked a SE and an architect. My friend who is a general contractor is coming out this week to check it too.

I always like to post questions I have like this on the DIY forum just to get some added opinions and hope that it may help others who have the same question. Is anyone on here actually an architect or a SE?
 
#14 ·
ryanxo,

first off, I am neither a licensed architect or engineer .... I have worked for over 20 years in various civil engineering firms as a technician.

a shear wall is a combination of building products, i.e., wood studs, sheathing, gypsum board, fasteners and/or metal connectors that are designed to resist the forces of wind acting upon a structure. See this link for forces that must be resisted http://www.safestronghome.com/highwind/01.asp Sometimes these "shear walls" are only located on the exterior of the building, sometimes that are also located on the interior of the building. Sometimes shear walls are referred to as braced wall panels.

depending where you are located determines what the wind forces are. For example I'm located on the coast of Massachusetts therefore buildings in my area are required to resist 110 mph wind forces, which falls outside of the prescriptive requirements of the building code. The 2009 IRC has bracing requirements based upon wind speeds of less than 110 mph therefore we cannot design shear walls/braced wall based upon the building code but must use another design manual such as the Wood Frame Construction Manual or ASCE-7.

Typically trusses should not be nailed to the top plate of interior walls as changes in pressure within the attic causes the bottom chord of the truss to raise and lower. If nailed it can prevent the chord from moving and could lead to cracking of the ceiling finish. Normally the ceiling to interior wall connection is made flexible by using a special drywall clip to connect the ceiling to the wall.

I believe the point many were making is that "actual eyes on the site" works a lot better than seeing a couple of photos and trying to decide, sometimes trusses can have internal load bearing points, it all depends on the original design of the truss. For example if my eyes were on your site I would have known prior your home was slab on grade.

Posting questions online is a good source of opinions and suggestions as well as information. And there are some extremely knowledgeable and experienced people on this forum. Glad to see you are using a thoughtful process in your project.

Good luck!
 
#15 ·
I am in virginia beach and we get hurricanes all the time.

Its funny you mention the ceiling pant cracking because that has happened over the past year I have lived in the house.
 
#17 ·
Don't know what you're looking for there ryanxo. Pretty cut and dry case.. It is very rare to have a bearing wall with a truss roof. Especially with your 26' span. Trusses are designed so the weight is transferred through the exterior walls in most cases. It does appear that the home was built in the late 90's and the framer wasn't familiar with the proper truss connections to interior non-load bearing walls. Depending on when the home was built the use of STC or DTC clips might not have even been common as well as the H2.5 clips being a requirement.
 
#18 ·
C house was built in the 70s. 76 so who knows what they were thinking back then.

I feel pretty safe taking out the wall I was just looking for the opinions of the people from the first day since they said they wouldn't say until I said what the SE said.
 
#21 ·
If it was a shear wall you would be able to see the plywood on the wall and then the sheetrock over/butting to it. The closeup photo only shows the ceiling sheetrock therefore there was no sheathing installed on the wall prior to sheetrock installation. Since the home was built in the 70's it probably isn't up to code standards anyway as far as shear walls, gable bracing, and hurricane ties. If that is something that concerns you, then maybe it should be addressed.
 
#22 ·
danpik yes I realize that. It's a wide variety of knowledge which is why I wanted lots of opinions and I thank everyone that has contributed. If they ever need computer assistance I'd be more than happy to offer my IT expertise.

Thanks for the shear wall input. There definitely isnt any plywood near this wall. It's all just sheetrock over 2x4.

Would it do any good to take the 2x4 from the top of the wall I'm removing and nail it to the top of the bottom board of the trusses in the attic? I'm assuming no but construction isn't my expertise haha.

Again thanks to everyone for their inputs. I definitely appreciate it and yes I realize that no one can make a 100% accurate call on whether or not it is load bearing. If there are any other pics I can take that would help in the call let me know though.

Right now I'm removing all the sheetrock from the wall and leaving the 2x4s until my contractor comes out next week. I figure worst case scenario he has to put in a header beam.
 
#23 ·
"The SE said that it was not load bearing especially since the trusses were only 23 inches apart on center across the entire house."
- The spacing has nothing to do with it being load bearing, They could be 12" apart (yes I have seen this) and still be load bearing.


"The truss being nailed to the wall worried me a bit too but the SE just told me to be careful taking out the wall since there were nails from the truss to that wall. He didn't seem concerned. The architect said I could take it down no issue too."
- Glad you got it checked out by someone on site they are truely the only ones who can say as they can see it all.

So mae-ling... you said you would answer after I said what the SE said. Whatcha got?
My guess from your pictures is that it probably was not a Load bearing wall.
As they are W or Fink trusses, Unless there was a girder truss we were not seeing that landed on that wall or a post in the wall.
I am not familiar with Sheer walls in my area, but know that could be an issue.


"And btw I wasn't going to take the wall down solely on the advice of people on a forum. I asked a SE and an architect. My friend who is a general contractor is coming out this week to check it too."
Better careful than sorry:thumbup:

"I always like to post questions I have like this on the DIY forum just to get some added opinions and hope that it may help others who have the same question. Is anyone on here actually an architect or a SE?"
- There are some, not me just a carpenter with 22 years experience.
 
#26 ·
Well I removed the walll... Figured I would post up a few pics of the project as I'm going through it.

Here's the wall after we had a little fun beating it up.





A little more sheetrock ripped off!



Then I got excited tearing wall out and didn't take pics for a while till I got to here...


Then I took out most of the 2x4s....



I took the double post at the end out and now just have the outlet one up there. The only thing that concerned me was that above the end post there the truss was doubled up over that one spot but the rest of them are single. So far it's fine though and it's been down for 3 days. Contractor friend that I had come look at it told me it would be fine.

I'll post more pics after I get the sheetrock fixed, outlets moved, and floor fixed so everyone can see the finished project.
 
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