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Old 02-23-2014, 12:11 PM   #1
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Can I move jack posts


My Basement is a backward L shape. So they have used 2 I beams. one that runs the length then stops at the one that runs across when it changes directions. The pics will help. There are 3 jack post in one small area across and I want to finish my basement and need to move them for the hallway to fit.
Measurements: I beams are 3/8 inch thick 6" high by 6" wide.
18 ft 7 " wide. Posts at 5 ft 1", 5 ft 4", and 8ft 2"

They support 2 stories above them so Is it possible to move them to this?
6ft 5", 5ft 2", and 6ft 5"

Pic: In Basement4 this would move the 1st post beside the 2nd as it supports the other beam. and the 3 one in the pic to the wall. of the bathroom. you can see in Basement5 the chalk lines meet is a corner wall where i wan the 2nd post.
This would allow me to hide them in the walls of the finished basement as the post on the other I beam running length wise can not be moved.

Thanks from Ontario, Canada
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:47 PM   #2
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Can I move jack posts


It is almost always possible to move a post, however it may require installation of a new beam. When you move a post, you change the loading on the beam. The new loading may be larger or smaller than the old loading, this is generally computed by a structural engineer. It is ESSENTIAL that you have the load computed before you move anything, as failure of the existing beam can result from moving the posts.

This is not a DIY project, and you really need a structural engineer to do the calcs on this.

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Old 02-23-2014, 12:54 PM   #3
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Can I move jack posts


Weird that those posts are not imbedded into the concrete, and the adjuster is at the top. Maybe a Canadian thing?

Maybe it goes without saying, but a new location for a post will also mean a new concrete footing.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:14 PM   #4
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Can I move jack posts


well I noticed a x by the 2nd post and the 1st post the x is joist away. which would make it use the same footing as the post on the other beam. I think it may have been put in the wrong place. There are 2 2x6 together by the x and above is my kitchen so there is not wall there.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:31 AM   #5
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Can I move jack posts


supporting columns aren't embedded in conc here but they're supposed to be on their own foundations, too - typically 2.0 x 2.0 x 1.0high,,, whether or not they're level w/finished floor elevation is up to the owner/bldr,,, i've never seen adjusting screws down near the floor


note to daniel or anyone who knows the answer - why are supporting columns fill w/conc - is it code for addl strength ( unlikely ), resistance to fire ( likely ), or what ? expect the adjusta-posts shown in the pics are not whereas i have seen original conc fill'd 4" - thanks in adv

Last edited by BigJim; 02-24-2014 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Unnecessary comment removed
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:28 AM   #6
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Can I move jack posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by itsreallyconc View Post
supporting columns aren't embedded in conc here but they're supposed to be on their own foundations, too - typically 2.0 x 2.0 x 1.0high,,, whether or not they're level w/finished floor elevation is up to the owner/bldr,,, i've never seen adjusting screws down near the floor

note to daniel or anyone who knows the answer - why are supporting columns fill w/conc - is it code for addl strength ( unlikely ), resistance to fire ( likely ), or what ? expect the adjusta-posts shown in the pics are not whereas i have seen original conc fill'd 4" - thanks in adv
I would guess filling with concrete eliminates moisture build up inside the post over time
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hand drive View Post
I would guess filling with concrete eliminates moisture build up inside the post over time
Not really. I have a 75+ year old Lolly Column in my Basement, that has rusted right above the concrete fill inside. It has collapsed 3/4 of an inch at this point, but not going anywhere else at any time soon, since the Brick & concrete filled column within six feet of it, is holding that end of the house up, along with the foundation.
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsreallyconc View Post
supporting columns aren't embedded in conc here but they're supposed to be on their own foundations, too - typically 2.0 x 2.0 x 1.0high,,, whether or not they're level w/finished floor elevation is up to the owner/bldr,,, i've never seen adjusting screws down near the floor


They're almost always embedded in concrete here, which is best practice IMPO. It's also practical. The beam usually get's set before the carpenter's show up, and the floors are rarely poured first here, so rather than use some temp posts, the permanent posts go in right away. Embedding the posts in concrete also locks the threaded adjuster in place permanently. If the post is ordered correctly, and the pad is poured at the correct elevation, the concrete floor should sit right at the cast iron threaded collar, which is the most robust and least likely to rust away, component of the post.

I understand that "lally" columns are often cut to length and set on the floor in many regions, but IMO, it makes it far too tempting/easy for someone to move them w/o knowing any better.



note to daniel or anyone who knows the answer - why are supporting columns fill w/conc - is it code for addl strength ( unlikely ), resistance to fire ( likely ), or what ? expect the adjusta-posts shown in the pics are not whereas i have seen original conc fill'd 4" - thanks in adv
I've always been of the understanding that it was done for fire resistance........
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #9
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me, too, jo,,, over the yrs have seen many rusted out @ the bottom but still supporting loads due to the conc filling,,, i'm sure many of us have seen collapsed steel beams as a result of fires - takes wood much longer to burn thru

Last edited by stadry; 02-24-2014 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:29 PM   #10
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I have seen many houses constructed but never have I seen jack post placed in that configuration. If you are going to build a wall at that location, consult with a styructural engineer and see if you can eliminate the two posts and make the wall load bearing. I have seen this done in construction for multifamily housing. However the the wall under the I-beam needs to be calculated to size the studding.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:12 PM   #11
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History of lally columns.
There is a pretty decent summary on the history of the lally column, invented by John Lally, at this address: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lally_column

I have read quite a bit about the history and use of lally columns. It appears that the reason they were filled with concrete is for compressive strength. The steel surrounding the concrete reduces buckling potential, allowing the lally column to hold substantial weight primarily due to the high compressive strength of concrete (typically at least 3000 psi). Concrete used in compression is cheaper than steel used in compression, hence the lally column is a cost effective column manufacturing technique.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:33 PM   #12
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I have noticed an x by where one post was put and the 1st that I really want to move is not by the other x. If I move it to the location I want, it will be beside the middle post in the picture. I will put a post in while I move them but I will probably end up moving the 2nd one as well because I will have 2 walls in a L taking some of the load as well. I believe this slight move is still taking the load.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:32 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
I have noticed an x by where one post was put and the 1st that I really want to move is not by the other x. If I move it to the location I want, it will be beside the middle post in the picture. I will put a post in while I move them but I will probably end up moving the 2nd one as well because I will have 2 walls in a L taking some of the load as well. I believe this slight move is still taking the load.
Sound great. You have absolutely no idea if the new relocated posts will actually bare on a footing, but you've already made the decision to move them based on a chalkmark "X" that could really mean nothing. Good luck to you.......
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:26 AM   #14
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no I based it on the fact that it would be right beside the other post, so there would be a footing there. I also did not say I would not have someone look and confirm if was ok. But thanks for your post.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:34 AM   #15
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I am wondering if they could just put one square post in the T intersection. I know that it would have to be sized appropriately. Probably a lot better then having three Lally Columns right there.

Figure a plate at the T, then the post embedded into a proper Concrete footer.

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