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Old 07-27-2010, 09:27 PM   #16
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


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I don't think it's ground water.Water gets on the porch when it rains and goes through the wall.
Ron

I'd have to go along with Ron on this one. There's just way too much water present at the wall to be wicking moisture UP IMO.

How about a pic of the stoop to brick corner?

I would guess that the stoop is poured directly against the brick, shrunk slightly, and is allowing water to hit the brick ledge below, and run into the garage. It sure doesn't appear to have a sunken brickledge from the pics, which is often times a problem down the road, as you're finding out now.

I'm just suprised that you've never gotten water in the space below????????

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Old 07-28-2010, 01:40 AM   #17
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


A very knowledgeable individual on another forum (greenbuildingadvisor) told me that concrete can wick, theoretically, about 15 miles. That is why he uses (as so many others) a special latex paint between the footer and foundation wall and foundation wall and slab. Whether or not that is your problem, I have no idea, but apparently water can wick a long-butt way. j
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:31 AM   #18
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


Here are some pictures of the porch and the surrounding area where some of the concrete has broken off. The underside of the edge of the porch floor slab (about a 6" chunk), closest to the garage, broke off this spring. Also the concrete section between the left side of the garage door and the porch also had a large chunk break away this spring. I never thought anything about it (I have kids that play hockey on the driveway). Maybe this is a sign that some water is in there, like Ron mentioned??

This latex paint that you mentioned, can it do anything if applied after the sill is mounted to the foundation wall?
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:32 AM   #19
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


Here are some more pictures of the porch/garage area.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:30 AM   #20
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


The latex paint is specifically for preventing wicking, so it will apparently stop water wherever it is applied. I would assume that if it stops water in concrete, and then the concrete is allowed to freeze, that that would tend to break the concrete up. Wish I knew more to help w/ your retro-fitting it. Obviously, it is mandatory to find where the water is coming from and stop it there.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:30 PM   #21
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


If you lay the hose on the porch and put it on low towards the garage, you should get your answer. I think it's odd that the porch concrete goes under the brick. This design allow the water to travel all the way to the garage, under the brick.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:07 PM   #22
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


99bobster99 -

A hose test is really not a reliable test since you are not creating the actual conditions and the time frame that is required for permeability/weeping is so much longer than short hose test that may give a false reading. The soil itself, can absorb and draw away more moisture than can weep through sound concrete. Weeping takes a long time to carry some water, especially if adjacent areas (buried stroage rooms) are still dry and made from the same materials.

I have seen some very strange water problems and you usually have to look upward if it is related to rainfall and shows up in large quantities within 24 hours. Some of the causes are poor gutter installation improper flashing around and over doors and windows, flashing around chimneys and the intersection of roof and walls.

kglingel -

I suggest you try to find a documented statement citing your experts opinions since water weeping through concrete 15 feet seem a little on the inane side. Is that vertically or horizontally. The concrete industry mas spent 10's of million of dollars to develop a 6"-12" permeable concrete that is effective. So far the only problems have been with the aggregate fines the plug any pores.

Latex is NOT a water sealer, but some water repellent materials are latex based and the more successfully coatings are cement-based or crystal-based. One of the problems with checking the permeability of concrete is that the embedded and surrounding materials have an affinity to attract the moisture. This is the reason wood always is a conductor or transporter of moisture (vertically and laterally) and water will move until it hit wood, like a wood plate. It is not unusual to have water travel up to 16 in height and 50' horizontally before it hits a barrier like concrete.

For some reason that wall section in the garage is very unique and complicated for some reason. Were you the original owner?

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Old 07-28-2010, 04:18 PM   #23
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


Post some shots of the porch roof, specifically where the shingles hit the wall.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:48 PM   #24
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


Dick: Check w/ Robert Riversong on the greenbuildingadvisor.com site. No, I did not verify his claim, which is why is said "apparently". Robert seems to know his stink, as confirmed by the link in buildingscience below. The paint he (and others there) suggests in UGL Dry Loc.

This says "tens of feet". http://www.fab-form.com/products/fastfoot

/Rising%20Damp/Wicking%20Forces%20in%20Concrete.html


"The theoretical limit of capillary rise in concrete is about 10 kilometers..."

http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...0in%20concrete

Good enough? j
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:59 AM   #25
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


It is least there are more details and the numbers cited are getting closer to the real work. Unfortunately, no documentation to start with that support the claims so others have not bothered to waste time on a floundering research study with little likelihood of producing meaningful results in any ones lifetime.

The problem the OP reported has a a rather short period of time and weeping/permating takes years or centuries to approach the strange numbers claimed.

Bottom line is that water willmigrate/move until it meets a barrier and the photos suggest that the sound concrete was a barrier that the water the wood could not absorb fast enough ran out to the surface where it was seen and not the actual cause of the leakage.

Dick
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:43 AM   #26
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


Here is another weird issue that I am seeing with this garage wall ... now that I have the area which was the most stained opened up, there is no longer any water/moisture showing up in this area??? What the heck is going on?? I was hoping to see a trickle of water coming from either above (roof) or from the sill/foundation joint, but there is nothing? The top of the foundation, as I have mentioned before, is slightly darker than before a rain. Also, these moisture stains only show up a day after a good ground rainfall. Is there some kind of vacuum being created in this wall when everything is sealed up, maybe having the area opened up now is removing a vacuum buildup? The other 2 areas of the wall are still showing very prominent moisture stains.

No, I am the 2nd owner of the house. The original owner of the house was a masonary guy, he went a little overboard on the walls in this house! I rebuilt the downstairs shower a very years ago, and it was metal lathe and plaster that was over an inch thick.

I will post some pictures of the chimnet flashing and the roof area covering the porch later today.

I really don't know where to start fixing this issue, I am getting prices on redoing the driveway (better slope away from house) as well as the side of the house where the door is located. I'd like them to slope the sidewalk for better drainage away from the foundation. This should be a good start.

I did the water test on the porch, I completely soaked all 3 walls, for over an hour and a half. There were no signs of moisture on this garage wall. But like concretemasonry mentioned, there might be some capillary action going on during a hard rainfall that I cannot simulate?
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:04 PM   #27
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


As Dick suggested, it's possible the water is coming from above. It could be getting in between the brick and sheathing and hitting the porch floor below. The path of least resistance might be into the garage, under the sill plate.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:54 PM   #28
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


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Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
As Dick suggested, it's possible the water is coming from above. It could be getting in between the brick and sheathing and hitting the porch floor below. The path of least resistance might be into the garage, under the sill plate.
Ron
That’s what I would think.

But it’s just odd that there is enough moisture to rust the nails but yet no signs that the sill has ever been wet.

Have you tore off the rest of the sheetrock up to the door? It has to come off anyway.

I want to see wet wood (for troubleshooting purposes only).

Don’t spend any money on a fix until you know for sure what the fix is.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:28 PM   #29
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


Here is what I find strange about where the moisture may be coming from ... before I opened the wall, it looked like this (see first picture below), after a similar rainfall, and after having opened up the wall it looks like the next picture?? Where did all the moisture go? Yet, the other areas further along the wall are still as wet (stained - see third picture) as they were before I opened the section of wall?? This is why I think it may be moisture moving around in this wall and not actual water flow, maybe this is why the wood itself isn't molded. Another thought, could the water be coming up the inside face of the foundation wall, get captured by all that parging (remember this new layer of parging has a lot of white glue added, maybe it is keeping the wall from breathing) thus trapping the moisture between the outside parging and the face of the plaster on this wall?
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:46 PM   #30
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Can Ground Water Wick Up A Foundation Wall?


How far did that foil-faced insulation board go down?

It's kind of hard to tell from the pics.

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