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Old 01-19-2010, 10:11 PM   #16
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Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


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Originally Posted by firehawkmph View Post
I have had good luck with T1-11 in the past. But two thoughts on that. I always bought the fir, not yellow pine. The other is I always painted all the edges first while they were still in the stack. I haven't used the cement version, but I agree it would probably work better. The fiber cement siding has done well in our area.
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Interesting. I don't know what wood species my dad's barn was built with, but we had bad luck. I just attributed it to the fact that it is pretty much just CDX with dado's routered into it, and that it allows all the plys of the plywood to be exposed.

You had said you paint all the factory edges while its stacked, do you also seal the routered dado's?

My dad had called the manufacturer of the T1-11 and they provided a little, and I mean a little compensation to replace 8-9 panels of T1-11, but that did little to help offset the cost.

Anyways, sorry to hijack the original posters thread, but wanted to get your experiences. Thanks!

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Old 01-19-2010, 10:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
Nice drawing. I have a few thoughts on your project.

1. A foundation consisting of a 4 inch thick slab on grade will only work well if it is placed on good soil, meaning sandy, not silty, and definitely not on expansive clay. You should check the soil carefully first, if it is poor soil, you need to evaluate options like a turned down slab, or replacement of the poor soil with gravel or coarse sand.

2. Your ceiling joists are acting to resist outward thrust generated by the rafters. Your design includes a ridge board (a non structural element), not a ridge beam. Therefore you need the joists, collar ties alone will not adequately resist outward thrust, they are there to equalize uplift pressure on the roof due to wind. You may wish to include collar ties on every other rafter to equalize pressure in the event of high wind. If you use trusses, you can forget the collar ties.

3. Definitely spring for hurricane clips to hold down the rafters or trusses, they cost very little and can save your roof in the event of high winds.
Thanks for the compliments on the drawing. I taught myself AutoCad in about two weeks. There are still some things I can't figure out how to do, but I guess I do OK for now.

What is the difference between a ridge beam and a ridge board, and how are each of them utilized?

The drawing does depict it but it's hard to see-the rafters are seat cut. Having never built anything like this, I figured that would give more contact between the rafter and double plate. This would increase the surface area of the joint where the two members meet, and also give more nailing area. These are just my thoughts; like I said I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I will still probably uses metal brackets anyway for extra measure.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:39 PM   #18
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Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


rafters rest against a ridge board as opposable pairs like your drawing.
rafters rest on top of a ridge beam. Beams are usually bigger in size.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:01 AM   #19
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I'm kind of a stickler for drawings that really show how something is built.

You cannot get from "A" to "E" without showing "B", "C", and "D".

Wanna give us some details on how those boxed gable overhangs get hung out there? Trust me, you do not want to begin something like this if you don't first know where every nail is going to go.

Your fascia isn't matching all the way around. This will screw you up, big time, when the rubber meets the road.

Not trying to be overly critical. It's just that 'concepts' and 'generalities' will hang you every time.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:30 AM   #20
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I'd bury & run a 1.5" conduit for electric under the slab before you pour it

And probably a ufer (ground).
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Wanna give us some details on how those boxed gable overhangs get hung out there? Trust me, you do not want to begin something like this if you don't first know where every nail is going to go.

Your fascia isn't matching all the way around. This will screw you up, big time, when the rubber meets the road.

Not trying to be overly critical. It's just that 'concepts' and 'generalities' will hang you every time.
I know that the fascias on the 16' sides will be 1x4s. The Fascias on the 12' sides (ends) will be 2x6s. Like I said in the original post, I'm not sure how to make Autocad do some things yet. It's hard to depect the framing in 2D, but here is an illustration that may give you an idea. I didn't bother with drawing hidden lines and putting one piece on top of another and so on, even though there will be instances of this around the structure. This is the basic framing of the cornices:



I didn't see it as an obstacle, but obviously you see something I don't.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:02 AM   #22
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Nothing wrong with the idea of smaller side fascias. But you do need to decide how the weight of all that boxed gable end is going to be supported.

There are a couple of ways, and I or most any other contractor or framer here could tell you today. But this is something I think you will benefit a lot more from if you do some research and personal puzzling for yourself.

Consider it for a while, and Google some framing techniques. And don't worry, if you don't discover it on your own, we will help you out.

BTW, I have both AutoCad and SketchUp. SketchUp is far and away the more convenient to use for concept drawing like this. You might want to download this totally free program.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:11 AM   #23
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I have several books on framing, and there are some examples. What weight are you referring to? I may be missing something, but is the weight of a small 2x4 frame really all that much, especially when it is nailed to the outer covering of the building and also nailed to the underside of the roof?
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:45 AM   #24
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Ok. I'll give you a head start.

These drawings are NOT correct...... I just threw this together real quick... no double plate on the gable.... no ridge board... tails not really extended far enough back into the rafter line for good cantilevered support... I drew exaggerated dimensions for clarity... and some things are a little misaligned.... no bird's mouths... and maybe a couple of other things wrong. So this is ONLY to give you an idea of one way to do this.

It is built well enough ONLY when a man can stand on the very edge of the cantilevered gable overhang and feel no flex in the construction. The weight of which I spoke is that big heavy gable fascia and the boxed framing below it (all the way along it in your bottom two drawings).... not just that little bird box on the bottom.
Attached Thumbnails
Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.-dropped-gable-1.jpg   Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.-dropped-gable-2.jpg   Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.-dropped-gable-3.jpg   Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.-dropped-gable-4.jpg   Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.-dropped-gable-5.jpg  

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Old 01-20-2010, 10:03 AM   #25
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I see what you have done. Interesting. I see now how your support boards stretch from the second to the last rafter out to the end "fly rafter". That makes alot of sense.

A question:

Do I need to frame my end walls the same way your are, or is the way I have mine done okay? (Of course there would have to be more added to mine, but clearly two totally different designs.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:09 AM   #26
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You can build a regular wall on the ends and 'fill-in' the top gable with a separate section.
If you have the manpower available, build the overhang on the ground and lift it as pieces onto the roof. Easier to build on the ground.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:10 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by J S Machine View Post
I see what you have done. Interesting. I see now how your support boards stretch from the second to the last rafter out to the end "fly rafter". That makes alot of sense.

A question:

Do I need to frame my end walls the same way your are, or is the way I have mine done okay? (Of course there would have to be more added to mine, but clearly two totally different designs.
No, your depiction is fine. But a small gabled wall on top of your square wall will be necessary to support the cantilevers.

And, as a rule of thumb, there should be two thirds of the length of those tails on the inside of the gable wall... with only the remaining one third sticking out in space to support the fly rafter.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:16 AM   #28
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Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Nothing wrong with the idea of smaller side fascias. But you do need to decide how the weight of all that boxed gable end is going to be supported.

There are a couple of ways, and I or most any other contractor or framer here could tell you today. But this is something I think you will benefit a lot more from if you do some research and personal puzzling for yourself.

Consider it for a while, and Google some framing techniques. And don't worry, if you don't discover it on your own, we will help you out.

Quote:
BTW, I have both AutoCad and SketchUp. SketchUp is far and away the more convenient to use for concept drawing like this. You might want to download this totally free program
.
Old School Willie,

Do you have a good link for a tutorial for sketch up. I know there are quite a few available. I'm looking for something a semi old dinosaur could understand.

Thanks, Kevin
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:17 AM   #29
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Plan on putting a gutter or something over the door. I don't have one, and the rain dripping down onto the top of the door is a serious annoyance.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:29 AM   #30
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Plan on putting a gutter or something over the door. I don't have one, and the rain dripping down onto the top of the door is a serious annoyance.
Ditto on that....

I like 1X6 fascia with a piece of metal ribbed fascia wrap that matches the gutter. It looks nice and helps keep the fascia from rotting.

Kevin

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