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Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.

12K views 35 replies 12 participants last post by  Willie T 
#1 ·
So I'm going to build a shop. You could call it a storage building. I've never done anything this exact before, and I was hoping to get some constructive criticism and iron out the wrinkles before I start. I know there are many pros here that can guide me. I've done some studying on building construction and framing, and hope I have come up with something that will work.

I have drawn this in Autocad, about as exact as I could. The rendering and computer graphics may not reflect the actual finished product to a T, but it is very close. The dimensions are dead on, but it may not appear to scale.

The specifics are:

4" slab
Light frame construction with 2x4s.
Treated bottom plate all the way around.
92 & 5/8 studs on 16" centers, and a top plate with double plate.
2x10 headers
2x6 Rafters placed on 2' centers.
36" steel door
2'x3' vinyl single hung windows.
7/16 OSB sheathing for the roof deck
3 tab shingles to match my house on top of 15w felt
2x4 ceiling joists (is this OK-- do I need to go 2x6?)


The building measures 12'x16' with 1' overhangs all the way around; so actually 14'x18'. I plan to completely enclose the fascias and cornices, as you can see in the realistic renderings. Drawing the framing for this stuff would have been a nightmare, so I left it off in those shots. The inside will be left bare frame, no wall coverings or ceiling coverings.

I cannot get a 2x8 ridge beam board over 16' long at a normal hardware store lumber yard. I really wanted 18' so that I could reach from one end of the roof to the other including the overhangs on both sides. I feel like I could probably easily frame the overhang with an add on board and go with a 2x8x16.

The last thing I am still undecided on is what to use for the exterior walls. The total materials cost so far is at about $1300. Whatever is used for the exterior will be + that. I'm trying to keep cost down. I hate to use something like plywood or some other cheap covering.

Here are some pictures. If you see anything that I have listed as a possible concern or if you have any further advice, Please offer it.







 
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#2 ·
You don't mention where you live or if this structure will need to be inspected or have electric or heat.
You can get lvl's in the length you want. The roof structure might need to be beefed up due to local codes/snow load. The 2x4' ceiling joists are too small for the span of 16'. The size I would use is 2x8 as the smallest and that would be if you never use that space for storage or if you were going to sheetrock it.
As for the siding material, what does the house have?
Code will dictate the minimum, so you might end up spending more just to get the bare essentials
Ron
 
#3 ·
You don't mention where you live or if this structure will need to be inspected or have electric or heat.
It will eventually get power, but my local codes dictate that a licensed electrician wire it. With the price of copper and the price of labor on the install, the wiring will come at a later date.

You can get lvl's in the length you want. The roof structure might need to be beefed up due to local codes/snow load. The 2x4' ceiling joists are too small for the span of 16'. The size I would use is 2x8 as the smallest and that would be if you never use that space for storage or if you were going to sheetrock it.
I will check into LVL's. The 2x4 ceiling joists are running the width of the building - which is 12' (not the length at 16') . Nothing will be attached to them like sheetrock. Maybe a small light fixture eventually. I live in Alabama, so the "snow load" isn't an issue. The worst it will see is a little rain and some wind.

As for the siding material, what does the house have? Code will dictate the minimum, so you might end up spending more just to get the bare essentials
Ron
My house is done in brick. I would like for this to be done in brick too, but that is definitely not in budget. See notes on HOA below.

The building will have to be inspected by the city building dept. I have been talking with them as I have been planning. I will run the issue of the ceiling joist size by them. I just wanted to get some of you all's opinions too.

My biggest hurdle is my home owner's association. Their only requirements are that it is located on a concrete slab, is located in the back 1/3rd of the yard, has a shingle roof matching the house, and that the plans get approval from the HOA architectural committee. They have the plans right now. They actually claim to have jurdistiction over the city building dept, which I don't know if they know what they are talking about..

Either way I will respect both sets of boundaries, because I want it to be a legitamte structure that will add value to my home and be structurally sound.
 
#4 ·
Even for 12' a 2x4 ceiling is not the way to go. The maximum recommended span for a 2x8 is 14'. I would use that as a minimum.
Ron
 
#5 ·
As Ron said 2x4's will not span 12'....they will sag
2x6's 24" OC will only span ~10' depending upon wood species
16" OC gets you to just over 11'
So you really do need 2x8's

Why are you putting in ceiling joists?
I'd put in collar ties & have an open "cathedral" ceiling
Or put the joists at 9' from the floor
If I had my shed to do over I'd do 9' walls & a barn style roof for upper storage area

HOA jurisdiction means they don't care if it meets code & building dept said you can build it
If the HOA does not approve the plans then you can't build it
The HOA can't allow you to build it BELOW code requirements
 
#6 ·
Js,
If you are going to leave your rafters on 24" centers, I would upgrade to 5/8 cdx. The 7/16" osb is going to be somewhat flimsy on a 24" span.
If I understand you correctly, your ceiling joists are basically just tying the two opposing walls together and you are not going to actually install a ceiling? If so, 2 x 6's would be fine over a 12' span. This was common practice years ago in my area. I have seen 2 x 6's spanning over 20'. They were spaced 4' apart and would have a verticle tie to the ridge just to keep them from sagging. But again, they weren't meant to be sheeted to walk on or store things on.
I would also recommend either pouring a 6" curb on top of your slab to get the walls a little further from grade height.
Siding depends on what you like. 5/8" T-111 made out of plywood and not flakeboard is very sturdy and looks good trimmed with 1x cedar. Use a good solid color stain and it will hold up well.
Mike Hawkins:)
 
#9 ·
Has T-111 been improved?

I just spent a significant time this summer replacing two sides of my dad's 36'x96' barn's T-111, as it was delaminating. Personally if it were me I would go with 12" tall cement fiberboard (hardi siding). This is what I was replacing the T-111 with on my dad's barn. Looks good and will last a lifetime...it is cement you know. Just something to think about.
 
#7 ·
I'm not a structural engineer, and I'm not a drafter, but what I'm trying to figure out is why the size of the ceiling joists even matter. If I am looking at this correctly, the rafters, ridge beam, and ceiling joist basicly make up a triangle. Wouldn't the triangle itself hold the roof up? I mean if the rafters are nailed to the ceiling joist, and the ceiling joists are resting on the walls, I don't see how it is much of an issue.

Again though, I could be wrong.


I also agree with upgrading to 5/8 decking. I think the building inspector guy said something about those 2' centers and 7/16 decking being an issue.
 
#10 ·
Not sure how much electric you want in there - but you might start simple and cheap with just a 120v circuit for a couple outlets and couple lights, then go bigger/more later. It's hard not to have any electric there. This is what I did when I built my 24x30 workshop to keep the initial price tag down - now have sub panel and much electric.
 
#12 ·
Looks like my 20x20 storage building/garage that was put up last year. Instead of joists I used trusses. Also added a layer of block on top of the slab to keep the wood 6" above grade. Hired out the slab and did the rest with the help of a friend. The slab was half the cost of the whole project. Still need electric ran but like yourself that will have to wait untill the wallet gets a little fatter.
 
#15 ·
Nice drawing. I have a few thoughts on your project.

1. A foundation consisting of a 4 inch thick slab on grade will only work well if it is placed on good soil, meaning sandy, not silty, and definitely not on expansive clay. You should check the soil carefully first, if it is poor soil, you need to evaluate options like a turned down slab, or replacement of the poor soil with gravel or coarse sand.

2. Your ceiling joists are acting to resist outward thrust generated by the rafters. Your design includes a ridge board (a non structural element), not a ridge beam. Therefore you need the joists, collar ties alone will not adequately resist outward thrust, they are there to equalize uplift pressure on the roof due to wind. You may wish to include collar ties on every other rafter to equalize pressure in the event of high wind. If you use trusses, you can forget the collar ties.

3. Definitely spring for hurricane clips to hold down the rafters or trusses, they cost very little and can save your roof in the event of high winds.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the compliments on the drawing. I taught myself AutoCad in about two weeks. There are still some things I can't figure out how to do, but I guess I do OK for now.

What is the difference between a ridge beam and a ridge board, and how are each of them utilized?

The drawing does depict it but it's hard to see-the rafters are seat cut. Having never built anything like this, I figured that would give more contact between the rafter and double plate. This would increase the surface area of the joint where the two members meet, and also give more nailing area. These are just my thoughts; like I said I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I will still probably uses metal brackets anyway for extra measure.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I'm kind of a stickler for drawings that really show how something is built.

You cannot get from "A" to "E" without showing "B", "C", and "D".

Wanna give us some details on how those boxed gable overhangs get hung out there? Trust me, you do not want to begin something like this if you don't first know where every nail is going to go.

Your fascia isn't matching all the way around. This will screw you up, big time, when the rubber meets the road.

Not trying to be overly critical. It's just that 'concepts' and 'generalities' will hang you every time.
 
#21 ·
Wanna give us some details on how those boxed gable overhangs get hung out there? Trust me, you do not want to begin something like this if you don't first know where every nail is going to go.

Your fascia isn't matching all the way around. This will screw you up, big time, when the rubber meets the road.

Not trying to be overly critical. It's just that 'concepts' and 'generalities' will hang you every time.
I know that the fascias on the 16' sides will be 1x4s. The Fascias on the 12' sides (ends) will be 2x6s. Like I said in the original post, I'm not sure how to make Autocad do some things yet. It's hard to depect the framing in 2D, but here is an illustration that may give you an idea. I didn't bother with drawing hidden lines and putting one piece on top of another and so on, even though there will be instances of this around the structure. This is the basic framing of the cornices:



I didn't see it as an obstacle, but obviously you see something I don't.
 
#22 ·
Nothing wrong with the idea of smaller side fascias. But you do need to decide how the weight of all that boxed gable end is going to be supported.

There are a couple of ways, and I or most any other contractor or framer here could tell you today. But this is something I think you will benefit a lot more from if you do some research and personal puzzling for yourself.

Consider it for a while, and Google some framing techniques. And don't worry, if you don't discover it on your own, we will help you out.

BTW, I have both AutoCad and SketchUp. SketchUp is far and away the more convenient to use for concept drawing like this. You might want to download this totally free program.
 
#28 ·
Nothing wrong with the idea of smaller side fascias. But you do need to decide how the weight of all that boxed gable end is going to be supported.

There are a couple of ways, and I or most any other contractor or framer here could tell you today. But this is something I think you will benefit a lot more from if you do some research and personal puzzling for yourself.

Consider it for a while, and Google some framing techniques. And don't worry, if you don't discover it on your own, we will help you out.

BTW, I have both AutoCad and SketchUp. SketchUp is far and away the more convenient to use for concept drawing like this. You might want to download this totally free program
.
Old School Willie,

Do you have a good link for a tutorial for sketch up. I know there are quite a few available. I'm looking for something a semi old dinosaur could understand. :wink:

Thanks, Kevin
 
#23 ·
I have several books on framing, and there are some examples. What weight are you referring to? I may be missing something, but is the weight of a small 2x4 frame really all that much, especially when it is nailed to the outer covering of the building and also nailed to the underside of the roof?
 
#24 · (Edited)
Ok. I'll give you a head start.

These drawings are NOT correct...... I just threw this together real quick... no double plate on the gable.... no ridge board... tails not really extended far enough back into the rafter line for good cantilevered support... I drew exaggerated dimensions for clarity... and some things are a little misaligned.... no bird's mouths... and maybe a couple of other things wrong. So this is ONLY to give you an idea of one way to do this.

It is built well enough ONLY when a man can stand on the very edge of the cantilevered gable overhang and feel no flex in the construction. The weight of which I spoke is that big heavy gable fascia and the boxed framing below it (all the way along it in your bottom two drawings).... not just that little bird box on the bottom.
 

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#25 ·
I see what you have done. Interesting. I see now how your support boards stretch from the second to the last rafter out to the end "fly rafter". That makes alot of sense.

A question:

Do I need to frame my end walls the same way your are, or is the way I have mine done okay? (Of course there would have to be more added to mine, but clearly two totally different designs.
 
#27 ·
I see what you have done. Interesting. I see now how your support boards stretch from the second to the last rafter out to the end "fly rafter". That makes alot of sense.

A question:

Do I need to frame my end walls the same way your are, or is the way I have mine done okay? (Of course there would have to be more added to mine, but clearly two totally different designs.
No, your depiction is fine. But a small gabled wall on top of your square wall will be necessary to support the cantilevers.

And, as a rule of thumb, there should be two thirds of the length of those tails on the inside of the gable wall... with only the remaining one third sticking out in space to support the fly rafter.
 
#26 ·
You can build a regular wall on the ends and 'fill-in' the top gable with a separate section.
If you have the manpower available, build the overhang on the ground and lift it as pieces onto the roof. Easier to build on the ground.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Have you considered using a garage door (or some sort of wide, tall door) at the end instead of that side door?

Three reasons.

One, you are going to need some serious access to get completed projects out.

Two, it gives great light and venelation when you are working and/or creating a lot of sawdust.

Three, it leaves both long sides of your building free for storage of longer lumber... or as in mine, kayaks and airplane wings. :wink:
 
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