Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-19-2010, 02:19 PM   #1
Lost..
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AL
Posts: 280
Share |
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


So I'm going to build a shop. You could call it a storage building. I've never done anything this exact before, and I was hoping to get some constructive criticism and iron out the wrinkles before I start. I know there are many pros here that can guide me. I've done some studying on building construction and framing, and hope I have come up with something that will work.

I have drawn this in Autocad, about as exact as I could. The rendering and computer graphics may not reflect the actual finished product to a T, but it is very close. The dimensions are dead on, but it may not appear to scale.

The specifics are:

4" slab
Light frame construction with 2x4s.
Treated bottom plate all the way around.
92 & 5/8 studs on 16" centers, and a top plate with double plate.
2x10 headers
2x6 Rafters placed on 2' centers.
36" steel door
2'x3' vinyl single hung windows.
7/16 OSB sheathing for the roof deck
3 tab shingles to match my house on top of 15w felt
2x4 ceiling joists (is this OK-- do I need to go 2x6?)


The building measures 12'x16' with 1' overhangs all the way around; so actually 14'x18'. I plan to completely enclose the fascias and cornices, as you can see in the realistic renderings. Drawing the framing for this stuff would have been a nightmare, so I left it off in those shots. The inside will be left bare frame, no wall coverings or ceiling coverings.

I cannot get a 2x8 ridge beam board over 16' long at a normal hardware store lumber yard. I really wanted 18' so that I could reach from one end of the roof to the other including the overhangs on both sides. I feel like I could probably easily frame the overhang with an add on board and go with a 2x8x16.

The last thing I am still undecided on is what to use for the exterior walls. The total materials cost so far is at about $1300. Whatever is used for the exterior will be + that. I'm trying to keep cost down. I hate to use something like plywood or some other cheap covering.

Here are some pictures. If you see anything that I have listed as a possible concern or if you have any further advice, Please offer it.








J S Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 03:50 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 9,519
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


You don't mention where you live or if this structure will need to be inspected or have electric or heat.
You can get lvl's in the length you want. The roof structure might need to be beefed up due to local codes/snow load. The 2x4' ceiling joists are too small for the span of 16'. The size I would use is 2x8 as the smallest and that would be if you never use that space for storage or if you were going to sheetrock it.
As for the siding material, what does the house have?
Code will dictate the minimum, so you might end up spending more just to get the bare essentials
Ron

Ron6519 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 04:10 PM   #3
Lost..
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AL
Posts: 280
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
You don't mention where you live or if this structure will need to be inspected or have electric or heat.
It will eventually get power, but my local codes dictate that a licensed electrician wire it. With the price of copper and the price of labor on the install, the wiring will come at a later date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
You can get lvl's in the length you want. The roof structure might need to be beefed up due to local codes/snow load. The 2x4' ceiling joists are too small for the span of 16'. The size I would use is 2x8 as the smallest and that would be if you never use that space for storage or if you were going to sheetrock it.
I will check into LVL's. The 2x4 ceiling joists are running the width of the building - which is 12' (not the length at 16') . Nothing will be attached to them like sheetrock. Maybe a small light fixture eventually. I live in Alabama, so the "snow load" isn't an issue. The worst it will see is a little rain and some wind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
As for the siding material, what does the house have? Code will dictate the minimum, so you might end up spending more just to get the bare essentials
Ron
My house is done in brick. I would like for this to be done in brick too, but that is definitely not in budget. See notes on HOA below.

The building will have to be inspected by the city building dept. I have been talking with them as I have been planning. I will run the issue of the ceiling joist size by them. I just wanted to get some of you all's opinions too.

My biggest hurdle is my home owner's association. Their only requirements are that it is located on a concrete slab, is located in the back 1/3rd of the yard, has a shingle roof matching the house, and that the plans get approval from the HOA architectural committee. They have the plans right now. They actually claim to have jurdistiction over the city building dept, which I don't know if they know what they are talking about..

Either way I will respect both sets of boundaries, because I want it to be a legitamte structure that will add value to my home and be structurally sound.
J S Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 04:52 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 9,519
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Even for 12' a 2x4 ceiling is not the way to go. The maximum recommended span for a 2x8 is 14'. I would use that as a minimum.
Ron
Ron6519 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 05:38 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


As Ron said 2x4's will not span 12'....they will sag
2x6's 24" OC will only span ~10' depending upon wood species
16" OC gets you to just over 11'
So you really do need 2x8's

Why are you putting in ceiling joists?
I'd put in collar ties & have an open "cathedral" ceiling
Or put the joists at 9' from the floor
If I had my shed to do over I'd do 9' walls & a barn style roof for upper storage area

HOA jurisdiction means they don't care if it meets code & building dept said you can build it
If the HOA does not approve the plans then you can't build it
The HOA can't allow you to build it BELOW code requirements
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 07:43 PM   #6
Member
 
firehawkmph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,580
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Js,
If you are going to leave your rafters on 24" centers, I would upgrade to 5/8 cdx. The 7/16" osb is going to be somewhat flimsy on a 24" span.
If I understand you correctly, your ceiling joists are basically just tying the two opposing walls together and you are not going to actually install a ceiling? If so, 2 x 6's would be fine over a 12' span. This was common practice years ago in my area. I have seen 2 x 6's spanning over 20'. They were spaced 4' apart and would have a verticle tie to the ridge just to keep them from sagging. But again, they weren't meant to be sheeted to walk on or store things on.
I would also recommend either pouring a 6" curb on top of your slab to get the walls a little further from grade height.
Siding depends on what you like. 5/8" T-111 made out of plywood and not flakeboard is very sturdy and looks good trimmed with 1x cedar. Use a good solid color stain and it will hold up well.
Mike Hawkins
firehawkmph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 08:47 PM   #7
Lost..
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AL
Posts: 280
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


I'm not a structural engineer, and I'm not a drafter, but what I'm trying to figure out is why the size of the ceiling joists even matter. If I am looking at this correctly, the rafters, ridge beam, and ceiling joist basicly make up a triangle. Wouldn't the triangle itself hold the roof up? I mean if the rafters are nailed to the ceiling joist, and the ceiling joists are resting on the walls, I don't see how it is much of an issue.

Again though, I could be wrong.


I also agree with upgrading to 5/8 decking. I think the building inspector guy said something about those 2' centers and 7/16 decking being an issue.
J S Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:01 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,794
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


You might want to price around for roof trusses rather than stick building it - the price may be very comparable, and it sure is easy to erect and strong. I have stick built several garages - my current one was done with trusses, they are great.

Last edited by vsheetz; 01-19-2010 at 09:07 PM.
vsheetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:03 PM   #9
Love for Construction
 
<*(((><'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 318
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawkmph View Post
Js,
If you are going to leave your rafters on 24" centers, I would upgrade to 5/8 cdx. The 7/16" osb is going to be somewhat flimsy on a 24" span.
If I understand you correctly, your ceiling joists are basically just tying the two opposing walls together and you are not going to actually install a ceiling? If so, 2 x 6's would be fine over a 12' span. This was common practice years ago in my area. I have seen 2 x 6's spanning over 20'. They were spaced 4' apart and would have a verticle tie to the ridge just to keep them from sagging. But again, they weren't meant to be sheeted to walk on or store things on.
I would also recommend either pouring a 6" curb on top of your slab to get the walls a little further from grade height.
Siding depends on what you like. 5/8" T-111 made out of plywood and not flakeboard is very sturdy and looks good trimmed with 1x cedar. Use a good solid color stain and it will hold up well.
Mike Hawkins

Has T-111 been improved?

I just spent a significant time this summer replacing two sides of my dad's 36'x96' barn's T-111, as it was delaminating. Personally if it were me I would go with 12" tall cement fiberboard (hardi siding). This is what I was replacing the T-111 with on my dad's barn. Looks good and will last a lifetime...it is cement you know. Just something to think about.
<*(((>< is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:04 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,794
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Not sure how much electric you want in there - but you might start simple and cheap with just a 120v circuit for a couple outlets and couple lights, then go bigger/more later. It's hard not to have any electric there. This is what I did when I built my 24x30 workshop to keep the initial price tag down - now have sub panel and much electric.
vsheetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:10 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


I'd bury & run a 1.5" conduit for electric under the slab before you pour it
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:11 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 2,362
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Looks like my 20x20 storage building/garage that was put up last year. Instead of joists I used trusses. Also added a layer of block on top of the slab to keep the wood 6" above grade. Hired out the slab and did the rest with the help of a friend. The slab was half the cost of the whole project. Still need electric ran but like yourself that will have to wait untill the wallet gets a little fatter.
Marty S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:11 PM   #13
Member
 
firehawkmph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,580
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


I have had good luck with T1-11 in the past. But two thoughts on that. I always bought the fir, not yellow pine. The other is I always painted all the edges first while they were still in the stack. I haven't used the cement version, but I agree it would probably work better. The fiber cement siding has done well in our area.
Mike Hawkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by <*(((>< View Post
Has T-111 been improved?

I just spent a significant time this summer replacing two sides of my dad's 36'x96' barn's T-111, as it was delaminating. Personally if it were me I would go with 12" tall cement fiberboard (hardi siding). This is what I was replacing the T-111 with on my dad's barn. Looks good and will last a lifetime...it is cement you know. Just something to think about.
firehawkmph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:49 PM   #14
Lost..
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AL
Posts: 280
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I'd bury & run a 1.5" conduit for electric under the slab before you pour it
Glad you mentioned this. I will definitely do it. I have no problem wiring the thing myself. I just want to be sure I follow the rules. They might go for me doing it and letting a licensed electrician approve it.
J S Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:55 PM   #15
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,166
Default

Building a storage building / small shop..please step in.


Nice drawing. I have a few thoughts on your project.

1. A foundation consisting of a 4 inch thick slab on grade will only work well if it is placed on good soil, meaning sandy, not silty, and definitely not on expansive clay. You should check the soil carefully first, if it is poor soil, you need to evaluate options like a turned down slab, or replacement of the poor soil with gravel or coarse sand.

2. Your ceiling joists are acting to resist outward thrust generated by the rafters. Your design includes a ridge board (a non structural element), not a ridge beam. Therefore you need the joists, collar ties alone will not adequately resist outward thrust, they are there to equalize uplift pressure on the roof due to wind. You may wish to include collar ties on every other rafter to equalize pressure in the event of high wind. If you use trusses, you can forget the collar ties.

3. Definitely spring for hurricane clips to hold down the rafters or trusses, they cost very little and can save your roof in the event of high winds.

Daniel Holzman is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building Garage Overhead Storage DirtSquirt Building & Construction 15 10-10-2009 09:41 PM
wiring a storage building 1arry Electrical 2 07-25-2008 11:13 AM
Building rafters for small shed simonb Roofing/Siding 4 07-15-2008 12:32 PM
foundation question for building a small cabin TNeat Building & Construction 3 08-01-2007 06:08 PM
Painting the inside of a storage building MillerClemsonHD Painting 6 03-23-2007 07:23 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.