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rmbanas 10-18-2009 09:45 PM

Building a pole barn, need help
 
Howdy,

First construction project I've taken on here and not quite sure how to proceed. I've purchased a 30x42 pole garage kit with preman'd trusses. Trusses and posts are 6' OC, with (16) 4x6x16 posts provided, (4) 6x6x20 and (2) 6x6x18. The kit was from midwest manufacturing purchased at Menards.

I wasn't supplied with any decent blue prints or instructions so I'm figuring this out on my own and have a few questions.

#1. I've made my own blueprint of the building with the corner posts and wall posts being the 4x6x16. The problem is, my doors (9x9 and 16x9) are on the 42' length of the building, not the gable ends. So, how do you put the posts on the gable ends? I'm guessing the 6x6x20 (4) could be used, with 2 of them on each end going up to the roof line (or as far as they'll go). I guess you scab them on the verticals of the trusses and then run a nailer board horizontally between them and the corner posts to set the trusses on. So the posts would be 3" inside the outside wall allowing for the nailer and wall girts. But, what good are the 6x6x18 posts for? Makes no sense to me. The other way I thought of it is to scab a 2x6 directly on the post making it a 6x8, then set the truss on the 2x6. Would this be a better idea than running horizontal nailers? Does it make a difference?

#2. For the 42' walls, do you use nailer boards too? Or just notch the posts and set the trusses in them? Seeing as the posts are 6' OC and the trusses are 6' OC, kinda makes a dilemma in my mind.

#3. For the headers on the garage doors, again related to question #2--if I notch the posts then I'd have to run actual headers for the trusses to sit on above the doors. If I run nailers on the whole building scabbed on both sides of the posts (i.e. 2x6's) then it wouldn't matter, and I wouldn't have to put up headers because I can just use the nailers to support the trusses over the doors. Is this a waste of lumber?

#4. Related to #2 and #3, if I run the nailers to support the trusses, then I'd guess I'd orient the 4x6 posts so that the 6" length runs with the 42' length of the building, and the 4" length runs with the trusses on the 30' length. This would provide more surface area to put the nailers on. If I notched the posts though, would it not make more sense to run them the opposite way, since the 6" length would provide additional surface area for the truss to sit on?

Any help is appreciated, hoping to start digging holes tomorrow.

vsheetz 10-18-2009 10:06 PM

Blueprints or instructions are not available from the vendor? If this is permitted were not blueprints needed for the permit?

Willie T 10-18-2009 10:23 PM

Please tell us why you are digging holes. (It's an important question.)

rmbanas 10-18-2009 11:09 PM

"mini blue prints" were available but worthless as they didn't show door placement (per menards staff) and large blue prints would take 2 weeks to be made, cost $350 and with snow already on the ground I can't wait that long. No blue prints were required to obtain a building permit, I just listed the building materials and proposed building size, size of posts, etc.

Why I am digging holes... is this a rhetorical question? Going to use a gas powered post digger to go down to 48", planning on 12" holes, and pouring a 12" cement necklace with rebar in the bottom of the posts.

Willie T 10-19-2009 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmbanas (Post 342599)
"mini blue prints" were available but worthless as they didn't show door placement (per menards staff) and large blue prints would take 2 weeks to be made, cost $350 and with snow already on the ground I can't wait that long. No blue prints were required to obtain a building permit, I just listed the building materials and proposed building size, size of posts, etc.

Why I am digging holes... is this a rhetorical question? Going to use a gas powered post digger to go down to 48", planning on 12" holes, and pouring a 12" cement necklace with rebar in the bottom of the posts.

No, it most certainly is not. Your reply is not totally clear, but it sounds as though you may be intending to bury the bottoms of your posts below ground level. If you intend this structure to last for some time, whether buried in just dirt, or encased in concrete........ please don't do this. It is a recipe for water infiltration and ensuing wood rot.

And, you will likely find that I will be but the first of many to tell you the very same thing here.

Keep all your wood above ground. And build everything so that no water gets trapped anywhere.

oldsnut 10-19-2009 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 342686)
No, it most certainly is not. Your reply is not totally clear, but it sounds as though you may be intending to bury the bottoms of your posts below ground level. If you intend this structure to last for some time, whether buried in just dirt, or encased in concrete........ please don't do this. It is a recipe for water infiltration and ensuing wood rot.

And, you will likely find that I will be but the first of many to tell you the very same thing here.

Keep all your wood above ground. And build everything so that no water gets trapped anywhere.

It's a pole barn, that is how they are built. Most are constructed with the posts being in the ground, but do not have to be. Pressure treated posts are used. Google pole barn construction and you will find many sources of the same info.

hayewe farm 10-19-2009 11:32 PM

Every pole barn I've seen have had the posts buried in the ground.
Just a guess but I would say the 4- 6X6X20 posts are corner posts that way they are the same thickness in both directions to match the thickness of the 4X6 posts that run down the sides and end. The corner posts are set deeper for stability. The 2 6X6 X18 are for either side of the large door. The top of the posts should all be the same height with the trusses setting nearly on top of the posts. The doors need to be on the gable ends or you will need to build some rather substantial headers.

Gary_602z 10-20-2009 07:34 AM

Truss's are 6ft. on center? I would double check that. Your trusses should set on headers that run on both sides of the posts.

Gary

Scuba_Dave 10-20-2009 07:49 AM

Pole barns are very different
Trusses can be anywhere from 4-12' OC

Willie T 10-20-2009 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayewe farm (Post 343068)
Every pole barn I've seen have had the posts buried in the ground.
Just a guess but I would say the 4- 6X6X20 posts are corner posts that way they are the same thickness in both directions to match the thickness of the 4X6 posts that run down the sides and end. The corner posts are set deeper for stability. The 2 6X6 X18 are for either side of the large door. The top of the posts should all be the same height with the trusses setting nearly on top of the posts. The doors need to be on the gable ends or you will need to build some rather substantial headers.

That's nice. Now print out your post, and put it in a plastic sleeve. Tack it to a post inside the barn to read about five years from now. :thumbup: :whistling2:

hayewe farm 10-20-2009 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 343147)
That's nice. Now print out your post, and put it in a plastic sleeve. Tack it to a post inside the barn to read about five years from now. :thumbup: :whistling2:

Well Willie T, my neighbors pole barn is still solid and the poles have been in the ground for over 20 years. My pole building shop has been standing for for over 30 years and is still solid.:whistling2:

Oh and we had 75 mile an hour winds last year.

Gary_602z 10-20-2009 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave (Post 343127)
Pole barns are very different
Trusses can be anywhere from 4-12' OC

Very possible but I have never seen any over 4 ft. with wood construction.

Gary

Gary_602z 10-20-2009 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 343147)
That's nice. Now print out your post, and put it in a plastic sleeve. Tack it to a post inside the barn to read about five years from now. :thumbup: :whistling2:

There are many polebarns in our area that are over 40 years old and still standing.

Gary

Scuba_Dave 10-20-2009 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary_602z (Post 343226)
Very possible but I have never seen any over 4 ft. with wood construction.

Gary

Now ya have...8' OC, and the poles aren't buried on this one

http://benchmark.20m.com/workshop/Ne...struction.html


http://benchmark.20m.com/workshop/Ne...ld_FrameUp.jpg

rmbanas 11-03-2009 12:32 AM

FYI, figured it all out so far. The 6x6 posts are as follows... 6x6x20 (4) are for end posts (2 on each end 10' OC), the 6x6x18's are jamb posts for the 16' door--why 6x6's I'm not quite sure.

So far I've got the posts set, girts up and in the process of notching to set trusses.

Which brings me to my next question... headers. The engineered kit from midwest manufacturing supplies 2x6's for headers... obviously inadequate. I've purchased some 18' 2x12's for the 16' span, 2 trusses will be resting on it. I'm wondering with 90# snow loads how many 'ply' I have to put the headers. Obviously scabbing them on the outside of the posts... would 2 ply doug fir's be fine? Or do I need to go with 3 or even 4 ply?


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