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Old 08-03-2008, 02:09 PM   #1
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


Hi!

I am wanting to build some hanging overhead storage in my garage. The ceiling is already drywalled so I don't have access to the beams in the ceiling. I was thinking about screwing some 2x4's along the length of some of the beams and then using those to screw the vertical supports to. Will this work? If yes, what kind of screws should I use? How many? I was thinking of using 2x4's for the vertical supports as well. How many screws and what size would be needed to attach those? Would something like that hold a lot of weight and be secure? The beams in the ceiling are actually floor joists fr ur bnus rom above, does that make any difference?

Thanks!
Marcie

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Old 08-03-2008, 03:25 PM   #2
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


Marcie,

Sounds like you have a good start on a plan... Too many DIY's start the project and think about a plan later....when things are not workin out right.

What kind of weight do you intend to store? What kind of tools do you have?

will you be near a wall? Do you know the direction of the floor joist?

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Old 08-03-2008, 03:45 PM   #3
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


FWIW. . .from my file on fasteners, numbers from various sources and a "lumber engineering" book


BOLTS & NON-MOVING WORKING LOAD
1/2", can hold 400# in tension;
1/4", 145#;
5/32", 65#


1/4-20 bolt can hold
57# at 20,000 psi tensile strength,
115# at 40 kpsi,
143 @ 50,
172 @ 60,
186 @ 65,
229 @ 80 and
272 @ 95.

Bolts should not be stressed more than 60% of yield strength.
Stronger bolts are harder and less ductile.
By using long, skinny bolts (Length/Dia ratio up to 8:1) the stretch makes them immune to vibration.

Ultimate TENSILE STRENGTH for materials in thousands of PSI
Alum 9-13
Brass 58
Copper 35-48
Iron 45
Steel 90


SAFETY FACTOR
For static loads use a 4:1 safety factor.
For vibration, sudden impact & overhead may need 8:1 or more.

Lag screw strength, size vs. depth in wood
#6, 9-/64" dia, 1" depth in wood = 41#, 1.5" = 62#
(9-/64" means slightly less than 9/64" dia)

#8, 5+/32" dia, 1" = 49#, 2" = 98#
#10, 3/16" dia, 1" = 57#, 2.5" = 142#
#12, 7-/32" dia, 1" = 65#, 3" = 195#
#14, 8-/32" dia, 2" = 146#, 3" = 219#
#16, 17+/64" dia, 2" = 160#, 3" 240#
#18, 19-/64" dia, 3" = 264#
#20, 5+/16" dia, 3" = 288#

Actual diameter
screw DIA = #(.013") + .060"
screw # = (DIA - .060")/0.013"

NAIL STRENGTH
2d 27# shear strength,
4d 42# shear,
6d 52# shear/15-30# per inch of penetration,
8d 65# shear/17-34# per pene inch,
10d 78# shear/20-38# per pene inch,
12d 78# shear/20# per pene inch,
16d 90# shear/21# per pene inch,
20d 116# shear/25# per pene inch


Smooth shank nails are easy to drive but don't hold as well. Ring shank hold very well in soft and medium wood, and resist vibration like on a stair tread. Spiral shank is good for hard woods and dense materials, and
doesn't split so easily when used near the ends of boards.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 08-03-2008 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 05:30 PM   #4
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


I have no idea how much weight would end up up there. I basically want to be able to put rubbermaid on it stacked 1 or 2 high and 2 deep. There probably wouldn't really be anything too heavy in them. Just seasonal stuff mainly.

My garage opens to the north. The struts run north/south. I want to build the storage on the south end of the garage. I was thinking screwing the support boards along the north/south struts. Maybe I should run them east/west and screw them into a number of different struts instead of along just one strut? I was planning on building the storage so that it was longer east/west than north/south. Like 2 bins deep n/s and 8 or 10 bins wide e/w. I could build right up to the wall on the east side.

Yoyizit - I appreciate you taking the time to post all of that info, but I don't really understand it. Can you explain what it means in terms of what I am hoping to do?

Thanks!

Marcie
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Old 08-03-2008, 05:53 PM   #5
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


east-west will spread what ever weight you add on more floor joists. (This is a good thing)Also if you are on the wall you could add support there.

buletbob.. had a nice layout for a hanging design.. that might work for you
check out his posts for the last week..

FIND THE CENTERS OF THE JOISTS. 1/4" lag bolt should work fine... or hook. no 2x4 needed....or 3 1/2 " deck screws (2 per) joist through the 2x4... use some steel brackets at L connections ... you could even use shelf brackets at your 90 degree angles... 1.5" or 1.25" screws with 3.5 also securing 2x4 connections.

assume you have drill motor & bits / circular saw / and like saw dust.

post some finished pictures... and show off your handy work... enjoy


have fun
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:02 PM   #6
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtSquirt View Post
I have no idea how much weight would end up up there. I basically want to be able to put rubbermaid on it stacked 1 or 2 high and 2 deep. There probably wouldn't really be anything too heavy in them. Just seasonal stuff mainly.

Like 2 bins deep n/s and 8 or 10 bins wide e/w. I could build right up to the wall on the east side.

Yoyizit - I appreciate you taking the time to post all of that info, but I don't really understand it. Can you explain what it means in terms of what I am hoping to do?
Please post photos so we can all see the application.

I guess I'd weigh one typical box and multiply by the number of boxes, or estimate the total weight you want to hold and pick your design and fasteners accordingly.

Another way is to guesstimate this is see what hardware stores have in the way of holding brackets and see how they recommend fastening these brackets to the walls.
By looking at several designs you can figure out from their instructions and recommendations what you may need. In this case the bracket is already designed, it is strong enough, and the only thing the customer has to do is fasten it properly, usually to wood.

Another way is just to build something and try it. If it wobbles or it looks unsteady you can brace it. You might go through two or three revisions.
I have suspended unused doors, as shelves, from ceilings, using coat hanger wires. They were strong enough but the shelf wobbled when you tried to remove stuff. This brings up the question of frequent use or just once/year storage.

In my two years in a hardware store I saw many customers just buy stuff and try it. They didn't ask and I didn't volunteer. For those who asked me, I advised them.

Doing the calculations or having someone do them buys you some measure of certainty and cuts down on the number of attempts to get something that works.

Other people depend on intuition or whatever, and scoff at the idea that they need any one, or any book, to tell them how to do this stuff. That's fine as long as they don't risk the safety of others.

I hope we all can help you further with this project, each of us in his/her own way.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 08-03-2008 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:15 PM   #7
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Thanks Guys! Yes, I have all those tools and pretty much anything else I might need.

I will definitely post pics when I get around to building it!

Oh, I meant to say as well that I searched all of Buletbob's posts for the last month and couldn't find the one you were talking of. I would love to see his design...

Last edited by DirtSquirt; 08-03-2008 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:31 PM   #8
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If you guess you're gonna hold 500 lbs, build it to hold 1000 lbs

If it were myself I would use 2x4s and plywood and use long construction screws (like 3") to join the wood and 1-1/2" to screw down plywood.

It can still even look pretty decent with some sanding and painting.

I like to use Lag Screws (and washers) for stuff that I know is gonna take a lot of weight, like when you're attaching to the joists in your ceiling. To use those, you can pre-drill a hole into the center of the bottom of the joist that is a smaller diameter than the screw itself so that it still has some meat to bite into when you screw it in. You could also use these on the cross-sections for your shelves (well, any of the major sections that will be under a lot of stress)

You can usually use the construction screws to hang it and put everything in place while you do that stuff. Whatever is easier...

Anyway, everyone on the forum could do it a different way and they could all be great ways of doing it. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:33 PM   #9
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


This must be my day...forget what I said and hire an engr.
25 years as a GC never had a structrual or cosmetic failure...
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:15 PM   #10
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


Ok, this might be overkill, but along with screwing the 2x4's together, I was thinking of using those metal bracket thingies (technical I know...) to strengthen the joints. I'm just not sure how to position the 2x4's or which brackets to use. I am posting a picture so you can see what I mean. Please tell me which one would be best.

Thanks again!
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:41 AM   #11
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


did you end up using 2x6 or 2x8s for this? my concern is weight. I will use it for storage also, but not sure what to expect in weight...1000-2000lbs?

please post your ideas, comments as I plan on starting this today or tomorrow
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:51 PM   #12
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I actually didn't get around to doing it at all. Next summer's project I guess! I would love to hear how you end up doing your though.
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:48 PM   #13
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


I just built some in my garage using 3/8 all thread, coupling nuts, nuts, washers, and hanger bolts. Hanger bolts have a wood thread on one end and machine thread on the other end. Run these into the joists, then a coupler nut, then the all thread, drill holes into a sheet of plywood, finish off with washers and nuts. I have 16'x2' of storage for about $50. Very easy to build and easy to take down if you want.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:36 PM   #14
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Building Garage Overhead Storage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalvin View Post
I just built some in my garage using 3/8 all thread, coupling nuts, nuts, washers, and hanger bolts.
Interesting approach! I like it.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:56 PM   #15
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Cal is right on the money. Follow that lead!!!

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