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Old 07-13-2012, 10:11 PM   #1
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Hello everyone. I have read many posts on this forum, and have gained much knowledge from it. I am a home owner, with experience in framing, but by no means an expert. I am from Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada (lots of snow). I am unsure of the exact load requirements but I am running all of this through my local building inspector and getting the required permit, I am just getting ideas to inform myself and prepare for the job.

I have designed my project on a program called "Google Sketch-up" and I am including my drawings at the end of this post, they are to scale and the important measurements are labelled.

Down to business - My reason for posting is because I am wondering how I should be attaching my 6" x 6" support beams to my home. As far as I can tell - I have 2 options,

#1 Cut holes into my roof and rest them on my house top plate. (DIFFICULT)
#2 Put two new 6"x6" posts at the house with footings to rest the beams on (UGLY)

So my question is, do I have any other options that will be to code, and may be easier then cutting into the roof to rest on the homes top plate?

Also, does anyone see any major concerns with the basic design I have here? I know it currently is not sitting on the homes top plate, other then that though.

Please let me know what information I am missing that is required to give advice. Any information would be helpful.

Thanks, Brett









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Old 07-13-2012, 11:55 PM   #2
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


The area behind the fancy W brace and the house should be closed off, impossible to shingle later.
And yes the roof will need to be opened up so the beams can rest on the existing top plates

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:13 AM   #3
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Are you making the pitch of the new roof the same as the existing roof? Are you making the overhang the same as the existing? If so your cleanest look will be keeping the top of your new beam the same height as the existing top plate. This can be done via a top flange simpson hanger. All your engineer will require is for you to rip out some drywall and install a post in your exterior wall, I can't imagine with that little weight a new footing of any kind would be needed. As far as cutting your roof, that will be cut back no matter what. I know these are just your preliminary drawings and you're looking for some feedback. Other then that seems like a great start. Neat program ya got there .
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:00 AM   #4
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


looks like google sketch up - free program
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:38 AM   #5
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Small note, your steps are on the side where your rain and snow will drip - you will need gutters - or a quick dash every time it rains

Would have to run the numbers but 6x6 may not be to code on a 6 foot span supporting a roof with snow load, you may have to go to a 2x8 or 2x10 double or triple beam resting on the inside wall. Most of the load of the new roof appears to be the front center of your A-frame, looks to be a 10 foot span with a 6x6 nailed from the sides supported by two angle braces, do the ends need to rest on the posts as well?

Your roofing may be a challenge to get the new section not to leak unless you reshingle afterwards with a proper valley, or do some creative cutting and sliding in a valley under the existing and...?

Perhaps the inner support could rest on the inner wall to eliminate posts there

PS - Owen Sound has a 55 psf snow load in normal conditions, I know pitched roofs have more to the calc but here is the quick calc = 7ft x 11ft x 55 = 4,235 lbs on the new overhang in snow load dead weight

Last edited by Klahti; 07-14-2012 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:46 AM   #6
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Please disregard klahti's post as it seems he/she has hit her/his head pretty hard and will be placed in a straight jacket shortly. I don't know if the moderators can edit his/hers post , but they need to.
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:48 AM   #7
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


I can't imagine with that little weight a new footing of any kind would be needed. As far as cutting your roof, that will be cut back no matter what. I know these are just your preliminary drawings
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:50 AM   #8
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


but 6x6 may not be to code on a 6 foot span supporting a roof with snow load, you may have to go to a 2x8 or 2x10 double or triple beam resting on the inside wall.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:04 AM   #9
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


What an arrogant a hole that Copper Clad dude is - could cost you a few thousand and he has no idea why

Number one - using a 6x6 as a horizontal structural bean IT MUST BE GRADE 2 OR BETTER in Canada. Most treated 6x6 ARE NOT GRADE STAMPED in Canada
I ran into a version of this when we put up a 4x16 clear pine beam which the drawings cam back with flying colours - overbuilt they said - time for inspection and the guy turns to us and says "I can't see a grade stamp". Cost us a day and a half labour to pull it down and luckily we had a friend who works at a mill with his grading ticket who so happened worked for the mill that cut us the timber so he was able to use their stamp and grade it - put it back up and after the inspection sand off the stamp and restain the entire beam. Since then we ONLY do grade 2 or better dimensional lumber for beams. That is why I replied it may not be to code EVEN if it passes the strength test which it most likely won't - we have fixed 3 garages this summer with 9 foot spans of two 2x12s that because the doors were not on the gable end of the building the double 2x12s bent down over an inch in the middle due to snow load on a 9 FOOT SPAN so there is no such thing as overbuilt in snow country.

Number 2 the drawing has all the weight of the roof coming down onto a horizontal beam that does not continue down to a footing, remember you are dealing with someone who could possibly have 6 feet of snow on top of this thing that can weight as much as your 1 ton pickup.

Number 3 water will not magically stop because you put up a wall or secondary fixture on your roof, it will find its way between the existing shingles and the 2 by whatever nailed to it and find a nailhole and leak into the attic. You have to redo the valley no ifs ands or buts.

What brought me here was we are completing a Ducan decking project which we have never done before and the seams were curling even AFTER following the instructions to a T both on paper and from the video on the website itself. Found the answer from a Ducan installer posted here from 2009 - the seam glue MUST be squeezed all the way out of the seam the entire length of the seam. We redid the seams and now the deck looks awesome.

So I bid all you all farewell as I can't be bothered to read stupid rantings from idiots (so I give you one to read instead as a parting gift)
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:39 AM   #10
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

So I am aware that much of the specifics will come down to what my inspector says and approves for my area. But from everyones feedback this is what Im gathering...

#1: I will have to open up my roof and rest my beams on the top plate.
#2: Yes I will be closing in the area between my old roof and new roof and it will be vented.
#2: Yes I am putting on rain gutters.
#3: Yes I am doing a complete re-shingle on my house afterwards.
#4: No I am not matching the pitch of my existing house(6/12), its to low and the fancy W beams would look silly. Right now its 11/12, but when I redo, I'm changing it to 10/12.
#5: I should be resting my horizontal beam from post to post on TOP of the 6"x6" posts going down to the 12" round footing. If I am sharing that area with the beams going to the houses top plate, how much should I knotch out the beam resting on the top plate to make room for the horizontal beam?

Copperclad said: " If so your cleanest look will be keeping the top of your new beam the same height as the existing top plate. This can be done via a top flange simpson hanger. All your engineer will require is for you to rip out some drywall and install a post in your exterior wall"
---Thanks copper for the idea, but my wife will kill me if I redo that drywall again inside, If I just rest my beam on top of my plate, I shouldn't need a new post down the wall, should I?

I will be redoing my drawings based on all this input - so please if anyone sees anything - shoot it at me and then I can make drawing #2 possibly a final.

Thanks so much again mae-ling, CopperClad, mareemunn2040, Klahti for the input so far.

-Brett
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:44 PM   #11
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Brett; was looking at your post and the follow-on comments about using a 6x6 beam.
If your snow load is 55psf, and assuming a dead load of 10psf, then the maximum bending stress in the beam for the span you have would be just under 800lbs/sq.in. The majority of construction timbers will achieve this figure. However, unless you want to pay a SE $$$ to prove it, you are probably best going with your local Code and Inspector's advice.
The beam would need to be supported off the wall plate (not the fascia).

(Good drawings as well; can't quite get my head around Sketchup!)
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:05 PM   #12
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Quote:
Originally Posted by d354u73l View Post
Thanks for all the feedback everyone!
If I just rest my beam on top of my plate, I shouldn't need a new post down the wall, should I?

-Brett
Most likely you will need a post down the wall and blocking in the floor joists and
whatever to support right down to the foundation.
Think of the 'load path' it needs to be down to something solid.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:20 PM   #13
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Quote:
Originally Posted by mae-ling View Post
Most likely you will need a post down the wall and blocking in the floor joists and
whatever to support right down to the foundation.
Think of the 'load path' it needs to be down to something solid.
+1. You need to transfer that load to a foundation of sorts. Whether that be a new pier or a post going all the way to your homes foundation.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:38 PM   #14
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


Just thinking, could you put a footing/pile beside the house and a post down to that?
Then it would be on the outside and won't need to open wall.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:27 PM   #15
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Building a Gable end porch cover. Tying into existing roof


In this project we cut in the stucco to install the post that bears down to the foundation.

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