Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-29-2009, 07:29 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Share |
Default

building with concrete


okay yes i am new and i spent a few minutes looking around for this but haven't seen much on the topic.

I am currently making plans for building an earth sheltered home, turf house, underground house what ever you want to call it.

Basicly the house will be entirely underground except one wall. The place i intend to build is a hill side and i have already made plans for a retaining wall so i don't have to worry about grading the slab besides for drainiage purposes

I intend to use almost nothing but concrete slabs and concrete block for the construction along with steel i beams for structual support of the roof.

While I can pour concrete slabs and lay brick and even weld this will be my first attempt at a project of this scale by myself( its not really a large project 40x20 ft just requires earth moving but they make toys for that) and more importantly with me being the one having to figure out all this stuff if i can ever get the variables figured out.

So enough about the plan onto the questions i guess.

I got a rough guesstimate of how much concrete can support something around 2000 psi which i am intending to go with anywhere with 2' to 3' think on the base slab and 6" for the roof slabs but does anyone know how much a block 8x8x16 filled solid with concrete will hold with rebar ran through the wall as well as the slabs since i am planning to bury the house back under 5'-8' of dirt the weight issues is kind my biggest concern.

yea i can imagine the permitting process on this one. "city hall ppl"
though i guess the houses are actualy becomeing alot more popular now but back on subject

Secondly though i was debating the drainage as well since roughly all but 30 to 40 foot of wall is going to be underground would placeing gravel around the walls and on the roof help or create issues since it would allow the water to drain around the house to the bottom drainways faster but also allow water to reach the house alot easier as well.
I do have a nice hillside i intend to use for this with no real standing water issues anywhere i would plan putting the house and just wonder how much drainage i would actually need

I miss the days of laborer the masterminds have to much to figure out and i won't even get paid for this.

At the moment those are my main issues the weight concern being the biggest one but these are only the first steps in this process i am sure i shall have more later on. any suggestions or links to info i would be greatful.

Unlimited121120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2009, 11:04 PM   #2
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,690
Default

building with concrete


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited121120 View Post
\

At the moment those are my main issues the weight concern being the biggest one but these are only the first steps in this process i am sure i shall have more later on. any suggestions or links to info i would be greatful.
Basically, what your building is a basement with "Spancrete" on top of it. You can start your journey by searching for your states building codes on basements. In my area, there is no way you are building this with 8" block if your wall heights are more than 5' high, unless your going to use a system like "Ivany" block, or the like, which will definately require engineering, as it's not covered under code. I'm all for masonry construction, but often times when it falls out of conventional practice, it's going to get awfully expensive.

jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2009, 11:37 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
Default

building with concrete


Like Jo says, get ready for expensive. I know a guy who wanted to do the exact same thing as you and the engineered plan alone cost him around 20k. For a project like this you will definitely need an engineered plan. He spent all that money and found out it was going to be way to much dough. With the 20k down the toilet, he opted for three walls in the ground and a conventional shed roof without earth on top of it.
It's a great concept what you're thinking of doing but the contractors and trades are few and far between that can handle a project like this. It's commercial construction stuff and that's expensive.
I know of one other fellow around here that ran out of money on a project like this. He's got three walls and no roof. It's been that way for 12 years.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just letting you know.
the carpenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2009, 04:43 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Default

building with concrete


Yay for misery...oops ment missouri we have no state mandated building codes there all elected by counties and i just so happened to wind up in one where no one knows much of any thing been kinda chasing my tail on this whole ordeal on what they are going to require for the permiting process on this though from what i did gleam on the amazingly witted and intellectual receptionist ( note sarcasm) that there isn't much in way of building codes and what not in the county. Though on a brighter note i did get an appointment with a guy who is spos to be over the whole permiting process here in a couple of days and i will find out for sure what all i am going to have to submit for this process.
Hopefully all my planning won't goto waste over some stupid little clauses like you can't build a house under ground in this county, see section c-9242-5d

i am still unsure of how much actual weight concrete can support and how much i am going to have to use to be well over the safety mark

note weighing a cubic foot of dirt yesterday i derived the soil under variable condidtions around the area i am building in is anywhere from 50-75 pounds a cubic foot 91 was the max i hit litterly drowning the box full of dirt with water and giving it nowhere to drain out of the box.

So i am looking at having close to 150-230 tons of dirt sitting on top of this building that is if i did my math right 25x50x5=6250x(50-75)=X/2000 yea i know its a rough guesstimate and wow thats a lot of friggen weight thinking 6 inches might be enough ceiling now tracking down concretes weight support is a hard task though for simpler math i will have 250-375pounds of dirt sitting on top of one square foot now watch me wind up haveing the whole equation screwed up anyways thanks for the comments guys and i will keep that in mind and will see what all i need in a couple of days
Unlimited121120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2009, 06:31 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Default

building with concrete


wow yea i was kinda tired when i wrote that last one so sorry if i am a little hard to understand.

I've been able to track down load strength of concrete being somewhere in the ball park of 2000-4500 psi. at four inches thick and i still intend to go alot thicher than four inches

Though to correct myself the load weight on the bottom concrete foundation will have to support the weight of the entire 200 or so tons of earth only on the points in which the wall touch the foundation floor so i am calculating this at 400,000 pounds going to just the amount of dirt being on top of the building not including the weight of the roof and walls which i will have to calculate into the the total equation. the wall would cover 11520 inches sqared

I figure 11520x(2000-4500)= answer
so if i use 2000 as a rough guesstimate to = a ton that means the entire foundation should be able to support 11520 in tonnage so it seems i should be safe on the foundation supporting this weight unless my research is all wrong

So my problem is now figuring out how to support the roof in a compression force instead of shear forces being applied by spanning this over open space my orginal plan was to span steel I beams over the expanse of the roof spaced at 4 foot 4 inches x 20 foot long but if i am correct that would put a lot of shear force on the concrete. not to mention increase the load weight only on particular spots on the foundation by a lot.

why can't it be like the good ole days using wood frames to support an entire mountain while people mined going oh it'll hold
anyways four hours of research has given me a headache so thats it for now please if anyone has info on this it would be appreciated
Unlimited121120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2009, 07:23 AM   #6
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,690
Default

building with concrete


No offense, but this is a DIY site, & what your talking about needs some BIG time engineering. If you where to try to build this with "seat of pants" engineering, you will see one of 2 things: failure or extreme overbuilding (read wasting huge money). The most realistic way to do this is have it engineered before hand so you can get an idea what's all involved. Building permits or not, would you really want to spend all this time & money HOPING this was going to work? BTW, this is no plain vanilla structure your trying to build. You will not find the engineering info on the internet, as this kind of construction is a rarity. I would reccomend 2 things: Look into "Spancrete" & look into "ICF Lite Deck". Two systems that have the engineering done already, & they can give you an idea what your in for.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2009, 01:24 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada (s/w ON.)
Posts: 2,294
Default

building with concrete


My best buddy, who is now dead and gone, built a home in much the same manner as you describe.
It was like living in a cave, dark and damp. Only had windows and doors on the one out-facing wall.
No cross ventilation. No bedroom windows. Difficulty running the wiring and plumbing. All sorts of problems.
The roof started to leak and he had to build a low pitch roof over the top, above the ground surface. Never could find the the leak in the roof.
Now it makes a good barn for some sheep.
Wildie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 06:44 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Default

building with concrete


well despite all the critisim and what not
first to jo on the this is a diy site if you have ever worked with a construction crew building houses you would realize that when they build a house they have groups of people working on different small projects at a time. and yes i realize this is a little more complicated that just building some wooden walls with a roof but if you break it down into smaller projects the entire thing is possible.

Now i will not argue about the engineering ordeal and the expense of this project i can understand all of that and but besides dealing with the ceiling i am putting on this it all boils down to basicly building a basement and after a short talk with some of the important people that involve me getting this permitted and all that fun stuff. i have been given the specs i am going to be required to meet and currently have been adjusting the plans around for that and have only had to tack on another 25,000 onto my orginal estimates which still leaves me far below what it was going to cost me if i had somebody come do this for me.

Now yes i might be crazy for attempting this and you all might be getting to tell me i told you so in a couple of months but if it doesn't work out like i planned well then it didn't work out like i planed but i have realized in life we learn more by getting out and doing more because thats when we make more mistakes and we always learn from our mistakes. besides my neighbor has some horses and it looks like he could use a new barn
Unlimited121120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 08:25 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
Default

building with concrete


I admire your attitude. It's up to you what you do with all of the advice you get. Trust me, the advice has only started. Good luck.
the carpenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2009, 12:19 AM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1
Default

building with concrete


Why not just lessen the load on the roof? Create a concrete retaining wall around the roof area to hold the hillside back, and just put say, a 12" layer of soil on the roof. Make sure that you anchor that wall into the surrounding soil or you will find it to be unstable in the direction you don't want it to be unstable. Make sure you slope the roof for drainage, have proper drainage around your walls. Make the open face South facing, and place all your ventilation shafts before you pour. Seems to me you'll create a fantastically insulated workspace that is green, energy efficient, can use passive solar, and will stay dry inside if you don't allow the air to sit. I'm not an expert by any means, but that's what I intend to do myself eventually.

As for internal strength, it seems that if you're going to create a good cement slab for a floor, you could underlay that with footers and add internal walls for support, shortening the length of your steel I-beams and adding vertical internal support for the roof as well as lateral. Use blocks and plan carefully and you should be able to run wiring, cat5 cable, etc as part of your plan before completion. It would be virtually fireproof as a structure. I'd heat it with a small wood stove and passive solar, and cool it with the Earth itself. I'd have a de-humidifier handy to ensure you maintain a stable low humidity.

I'm not a big fan of the Earth floor idea, it seems to me that the porosity would allow variations in humidity as water draining off the structure to the sides diffused into the soil under the building over time. Make sure you think of draining very carefully.

I am very sure that engineers will scoff and my layman attempts, but I plan on going this route myself, and will simply over engineer the structure. Other than the expense of additional concrete, what's to lose? You create not only a strong structure that can withstand numerous disasters, but you create a safe retreat for your family in the event of bad weather or national emergency. If you're into that type of thing, you reduce your energy consumption also as heating and cooling will be reduced.

Again, I'm no expert, but I'm adventurous so why not?
Crusis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2009, 05:23 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: hilton head & atlanta
Posts: 3,044
Default

building with concrete


an inflatable dome dorm w/rebar surrounding the form works much better,,, you RENT the form, blow it up onsite - tie the steel - shoot the conc - FINITO ! ! ! perhaps i missed its mention in earlier posts but were you thinking of including epoxy coated steel reinforcement ? ? ? what you intend closely resembles a bridge deck.

REMEMBER THE WATERPROOFING COATING ! ! !

itsreallyconc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2009, 11:05 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada (s/w ON.)
Posts: 2,294
Default

building with concrete


How about a concrete igloo. Igloo's have been used for thousands of years!

Wildie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How To Keep Your Concrete Mixer Driver Happy Mort How To Guides 38 02-12-2014 06:25 PM
building shower walls with concrete canyongirl Building & Construction 13 03-14-2010 12:44 PM
Building deck over concrete patio stro77 Building & Construction 8 06-25-2009 04:21 PM
building a second story concrete balcony construction newbie Building & Construction 5 01-28-2008 06:00 AM
Building garage with elevated concrete floor dmj245 Building & Construction 13 05-31-2006 04:13 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.