DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

Building Codes

3K views 28 replies 15 participants last post by  stevergee 
#1 · (Edited)
I have purchased and sold over 5 houses in the last 24 years and not once have I ever run into 'building code' issues. Meaning that I never can recall a renovation that was done on the house before I bought it or something that I did before I sold it that ever mattered as far as building codes were concerned.

But it seems that in many post in this forum there is a lot of talk about buying permits and getting inspections for things like installing a dishwasher and such.

So when I hear somebody say that 'you better get a permit for that or it will come back to haunt you when you try to sell it' I m like really? I guess I have never experienced this or talked to anyone that ever has, unless they were a contractor and doing a major development somewhere.

So my question is - why all the hype about permits over minor DIY projects?
 
#2 ·
Beats me. I've bought and sold ten houses since my first one in 1976. About half were new construction (including our current one, which the wife and I built by ourselves). Most of the others were 50+ years old. We did extensive renovation to all of them, and never got a permit for anything. Not once did we have an issue when we sold one. Don't know what kind of buyer would delve that deeply into a house's history; I've sure never met any of them.

A couple of the older houses we bought had code violations (I could see them). But we did not care; unlike most buyers, we looked not at what a house was, but what it could become with a little work. The violations were merely leverage to negotiate a lower price.
 
#4 ·
Spent much time on DIY sites and seen some of the horrific things some DIY or even pros have done to homes?
There not just making up building code for something to do or to raise money. There there for your safety and to make sure the work gets done the right way.
Anyone that does this for a living can tell dozen of horror story's about things we have found by people trying to get by for one reason or another.
 
#5 ·
permits for single family homes are not as sought after as say multi dwelling or commercial space where lots of people may get injured.

permitting is a simple way to get an "inspector" to check your work and to have documentation of such.

when selling an older home some new things might be obvious to a buyer's inspector, such as new walls or new electric, new breakers in box, new plumbing, etc etc. at that point s/he could call it out looking for permit/inspection docs per locale code requirements.

i sold my home in 2007 and in 2005 i had built a deck on back of house. deck was not on original plans, inspector called it out, i then needed to buy a permit and get a town inspector to come before i could sell the home.

so, it all depends, but for most DIY work that is not specifically your trade of employment the work would warrant at least an inspection by a qualified person, you can deal with permitting later if need be, etc.

its all about proper construction for safe & healthy dwelling, etc.
 
#13 ·
its all about proper construction for safe & healthy dwelling, etc.
Oh, if only that were true. I live on a multi-acre lot in the middle of rural nowhere. I had to get a permit for a premanufactured Amish garden shed that just sits on the ground. No foundation, plumbing, electric, nothing. Didn't have to submit any plans, just pay the $80 for the permit. The inspector looked at it from his car (didn't even get out) and said it looked fine. The kicker? A few days later, I got a Certificate of Occupancy in the mail. What's that other than a blatant money grab??
 
#7 ·
Here is a good example...

Say you are selling a house. And your pointing out the remodeled kitchen and bathroom.

Ok.

So I go to see if you pulled permits. Find out you didn't. How do I know you did the plumbing right or the electrical right? What if you opened up a wall and didn't put in the right sized header or make sure there is proper support under the post?

If I've paid a down payment...I have an out for getting my money back. Or I talk you down on price....unless you want to wait for a less the informed buyer.

Or, I could be an a$$ and tell the building and safety and they show up at your door.

Just saying....
 
#15 ·
True....but the problem is....how often does someone do 'only' that? In most cases, more outlets get added...lights get moved. For that can bezel, did they use the right one? ICAT?

I know...those little details can be a b!tch....but, houses have burned down for lesser reasons.
 
#9 ·
So my question is - why all the hype about permits over minor DIY projects?
1) A lot of people don't read instructions, or understand them even if they did read them. If you tell someone to high loop the dishwasher, do they remember to do so ? By having it inspected, hopefully the safety related errors will be caught.

2) We attempt to give code compliant advice. If I know that a permit is required in your area for X work, I let you know that it is. If you choose NOT to get one, that's your "informed decision".
 
#16 ·
Ive been working in construction for 35 years now and ive seen the best and the worst, Houses burned down and people killed by messed up wiring and homes flooded because of bad plumbing. Is some ones life worth less then the cost of a permit and doing the job right, NO its not but people still do it because of the old excuse its a money grab or its my house I will do what I want

I hold 5 license in the trades and Im currently working on My last home that Im retiring in. Did I pull plumbing, electrical and framing permits to do the work even thou I hold these license, Yes I did, Not because i need someone to check my work I know its right but where I live if you get caught they can make you strip the drywall off to check and or tear down what you have done because of a zoning issue You didnt know about

And its nice to have someone else check your work because its impossible to know everything and all the zoning laws. Do I think some codes are stupid, Yes I do but they are there for a reason, Someone got hurt or a company had there product they wanted to sell put into the codes now they are selling like hot cakes
 
#17 ·
one of my friends in the building dept has told me when a insurance claim is made. The insurance company will ask if the home had permits. if they say no, or we have no record. 9 x out of ten the insurance company will deny the claim.
Also most work is hid and people can not see what the framing was like or how good the wiring was done. if the plumbing was done right ect....
now that being said. Some states have a seven year limit on where a home owner can go back on the prior owner for faulty work and major work done with out a permit. and some of those states can charge them with fraud and prison time.
 
#26 ·
one of my friends in the building dept has told me when a insurance claim is made. The insurance company will ask if the home had permits. if they say no, or we have no record. 9 x out of ten the insurance company will deny the claim
Not believable. First off, the building department is not the insurance company, and hearsay from them is not indicative of any facts. Second of all, the presence or absence of permits does in not way indicate the cause of the claim. And lastly, insurance covers all sorts of negligent or illegal actions by the covered, such as car crashes involving excessive speed, drugs or alcohol, or dog bites by unruly animals. Yet you claim that a mere outlet added with no permit will cause a claim denial. Surely you should be able to supply a verifiable source for that like a newspaper article or the like, and not just endlessly add to urban lore.

.......now that being said. Some states have a seven year limit on where a home owner can go back on the prior owner for faulty work and major work done with out a permit. and some of those states can charge them with fraud and prison time.
Any examples?
 
#21 ·
Inspections? We don't need no stinking inspections

“So we looked in the backyard and the whole deck had just collapsed, it looked like the legs had just given out from underneath it. Apparently these decks have just been held together with just a few nails, now that they are looking into it. It's freaky to think about, really," said neighbour Annie Borland.
 
#23 ·
My dad was the king of building stuff without permits.
Until one day he was building a 15 by 30 foot 2 story barn style shed in the back yard. The township caught him and made him post a permit. However I don't know all the details - it could have been an irritated neighbor that called the township to report it.
 
#25 ·
One weekend he asked a neighbor if he could borrow his garden hose. So the nice neighbor was willing - but was going away that weekend. Well about 6 weeks later the neighbor saw about $250 jump in his water bill. My dad borrowed his garden hose to fill up the swimming pool and left it connected to the neighbors house. Not proud of this legacy - but this what people do when controlled by alcohol
 
#27 ·
Have to agree with AntiWingnut regarding insurance claims. I have done about 300 cause and origin investigations for insurance companies for claims derived from wind damage, flood, explosion, impact, structural collapse, groundwater intrusion, and a few more exotic examples. Out of the 300 or so claims I have investigated and prepared reports on, I have only been asked twice to determine if there was a building code violation, and I have never been asked to determine if a permit was pulled for the work.

The only reason the insurance company asked about the building code violation was to determine if they could cross claim against the builder. There was never a question about paying the claim, the issue was if they could collect from the party who did the defective work.

To the best of my knowledge, you will get paid for your claim if it is a covered peril, for example your house was hit by a tornado, a fire occurred, a tree fell on your house etc. You will not get paid if the claim is not for a covered peril, for example groundwater intrusion, impact by astronomical object, earthquake (unless you have earthquake coverage), domestic insurrection, military activity by a hostile power, and a wide range of other possible exclusions, including arson by the owner. In each case, THE ONLY way to determine if you are covered is to READ YOUR POLICY very carefully, including the exclusion sections.

That said, I have never seen a policy that included an exclusion for stupidity, incompetent work by the homeowner, failure to pull a permit, building code violation, or similar concerns. Some criminal activities are covered, some are not. For example, if you burn your own house down, you are probably not covered. If someone else burns your house down, you are almost certainly covered. If an electrician does shoddy work, fails to pull a permit, and your house burns down, you are covered, although the insurance company may cross claim against the electrician who did the work. If you did your own work, it was shoddy, and you did not pull a permit, and your house burned down, you are almost certainly covered, although the insurance company will likely drop you from future coverage. I have never heard of a case where the insurance company claimed against the homeowner, not saying it can't happen, but I would need to see hard evidence before I believed that this was common practice. Like I said, I have done 300 some odd insurance claims, and I have NEVER seen the insurance company claim against the insured, or deny coverage because of failure to pull a permit, or for defective work.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top