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Old 09-07-2008, 02:36 PM   #1
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Broken Cinder Block


Background... I have a sunroom that I wanted to add a level on to make it two stories. I tore the old sunroom down to get to the top of a fieldstone and cinderblock foundation so that I could fill the open cell cinderblocks with concrete.
Never a dull moment.

I noticed that is a cinder block under a beam that is broken. I pulled the loose piece off and now I'm wondering what my best coarse of action would be.
Do I need to replace the block or is there a way to fill the section with concrete by using a makeshift form?
Any ideas greatly appreciated.
TIA
Cliff
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:11 PM   #2
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Broken Cinder Block


I've given this some careful thought and here's my plan of attack.
1. Jack the beam up 1/16"-1/8"
2. Carefully knock out the rest of the broken cinder block with a chisel.
3. Wrap the end of the beam with Ice and Water or some kind of membrane to avoid the beam coming in contact with the concrete.
4. Build a small form and pour a new cinder block in place. Since I'm filling all the open cells anyway, this would tie the new concrete in quite well. I'll add some pieces of horizontal rebar as I pour the new block as well as vertical pieces running through the open cells.

Any thoughts, am I going at this the right way?
Is there anything I need to do to the existing concrete to assure a strong bond between the new and old?

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Old 09-07-2008, 11:10 PM   #3
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Broken Cinder Block


I can't tell you what to do but if it were mine I would put a support post under the beam against the wall dig the old block out and cut a new one to go back in its place. I would leave the support post permanently.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:24 AM   #4
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Broken Cinder Block


Thanks for the idea but the problem with that is I can't get a new cinder block in there without removing the beam. When the house was built, the beam was dropped in from above.
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Clutchcargo View Post
Thanks for the idea but the problem with that is I can't get a new cinder block in there without removing the beam. When the house was built, the beam was dropped in from above.
My thoughts were to get the pressure off the end of the beam as there is too much pressure resting on a small area. It looks like now there is only part of a web of a block holding the beam up and that is not good. But I would personally have a support post under that end of the beam permanently if at all possible no matter what I did to replace the broken block. Sorry I couldn't be of more help Clutchcargo.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:15 PM   #6
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Broken Cinder Block


I think I would temporarily support the beam on the left. Remove the old broken block down to a clean surface. Then form it and pour some concrete mix. Vibrate it to get all the honeycombs out of it. It is not a really good construction detail to set that beam on an outside corner like was done, but it looks like it was OK till you disturbed it removing the sun porch plate. Since you want to make sure the concrete mix completely fills the space, I would be careful what you wrap around the beam for moisture protection. It has to be something that will not allow any voids. A concrete fill will give you fiull bearing of the beam instead of just on the block webs, plus it will lock into the cores below.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:39 PM   #7
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Broken Cinder Block


What do you recommend wrapping the end of the beam up with?
That crack is not a new crack I was able to fill the area with great stuff last year. I probably opened it up abit more by pulling out the sill plate.
I'm not too worried about the support of that beam because it currently supports the exterior wall but my plan is to open up the room above that beam, so really that beam will support only 1 floor joist when I'm done. Above the plate on each corner will be a stack of 2x4s supporting a triple 11 7/8" LVL floor beam.
I had a structural engineer come out before I started this and he told me that I needed to fill the voids in the cinder blocks and filling the cells under the beam were the most important ones to fill. I wondered how I was going to do this without removing the beam... Now I know.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:46 AM   #8
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Broken Cinder Block


Funny thing how these projects grow. Where ever it contacts masonry, I would wrap the beam with 6 mil poly. Since it looks like the beam has been laying on that block for a long time without any adverse effects, I don't know that I'd drive myself crazy about moisture protection for it. I would be more concerned with getting the masonry corner re-inforced to carry the extra load that you plan to place on it. The cores on three hole block don't line up well, so getting concrete down through them is a real treat. It's bad enough when you have access to the tops, much less when you have a sill in place. You may want to consider starting about a foot from the bottom of the corner and drill a hole into the cores. Then start grouting them. Patch the holes with mortar and move up about 3 block and do the same until you get the whole corner filled solid. My thinking is that grout would fill the voids more solid than concrete and still give you compressive strength since it is trapped inside the blocks
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:58 AM   #9
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Thanks for your advice Maintenance 6.

I got the block out last night. It wasn't too much work and took about an hour to fracture it to a point where it could be pulled out. I have access to the full line of cores below that now. I don’t know if I’ll be able to get a vibrator in there, however, there’s not a lot of room getting by mortar squeeze out and rebar.

Unfortunately, once I got the jacked up the beam and got weight off the block, I noticed the block next to it is loose too. A previous owner had tried to caulk instead of re-morter and I added insult to injury and just went over it with drylock last year.

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