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Old 03-29-2011, 10:32 PM   #1
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Block Wall - Door


I have a 2 stall garage under the house. The back wall of the garage is 8x8x16 cinder block. It is a supporting wall as well. I want to put a steel door into that wall so I have access to the basement through the garage. I've been reading all over and I know I need a header for the door, but what kind? i beam? Lintel? Wood? I plan on putting it at least 6" wider on each side of the door too.

My thoughts were to figure out where the header (whatever kind) is going to go. Cut out the blocks for the header and wedge it in there. Once the header is in, then I can cut out the opening for the steel door. This sound ok?

Also, can I just butt the steel frame/jambs of the door right up against the block? Or should I frame it out around the door jambs with wood first? Should the header also be at the very top of the door? Or does it need to go up higher?

Thanks in advance for the info!

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Old 03-30-2011, 09:29 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgrohol View Post
I have a 2 stall garage under the house. The back wall of the garage is 8x8x16 cinder block. It is a supporting wall as well. I want to put a steel door into that wall so I have access to the basement through the garage. I've been reading all over and I know I need a header for the door, but what kind? i beam? Lintel? Wood? I plan on putting it at least 6" wider on each side of the door too.

I would look into a pre-cast concrete lintel, plain and simple, and should be available at any CMU manufacturer. typical is min. 4" bearing, but 8" is more common due to the bond of the existing block wall.

My thoughts were to figure out where the header (whatever kind) is going to go. Cut out the blocks for the header and wedge it in there. Once the header is in, then I can cut out the opening for the steel door. This sound ok?

You need to temporarily support any remaining block above as well as any floor/wall load from above.

Also, can I just butt the steel frame/jambs of the door right up against the block?

Yes, this is the best method. You will want to check if the jambs need to be filled solid though for fire-rating.

Or should I frame it out around the door jambs with wood first?

No good reason for wood at all, retro-fit masonry hollow metal door frames anchor directly to masonry.

Should the header also be at the very top of the door? Or does it need to go up higher?

Directly over the door is the best case in most all scenarios.


Thanks in advance for the info!

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Old 03-30-2011, 01:11 PM   #3
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pre-cast concrete lintel: Since I have room on both sides of this door, I will shoot for an 8" on each side bearing to be safe. I have the room, why not. Would I just mortar this into place as any other block?

What would the steps be of putting in the lintel and the door while supporting the above block and structure?

Do I cut the hole only for the lintel and get that in. Then cut the hole for the door?

Or do I cut it all out at once and support the above block? What do I support it with?

Also, I will be framing a wall on one side of this block wall. That room will eventually become a home gym. The framed wall will probably be around 1" away from the block wall. When I look for a door, can I get one with a jamb depth bigger than 8" to accommodate the wall?

I will be posting photos of the wall/area shortly as soon I as get some.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:32 PM   #4
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To support the block above use one of these
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with one of these
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like this
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:36 PM   #5
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Very nice. Supporting without being in the opening itself and in the way. Do these items have names?
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:57 PM   #6
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Do these items have names?
They certainly do. The first one is a strongboy and the second is an acrow prop.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:23 PM   #7
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Ah very nice.

I could chisel out the mortar, insert these, then start my cutting?

I'm assuming this would go under the last row of blocks that will be left after the cutting?
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:22 PM   #8
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Did some reading and they'd be perfect for me to use. Next question is, where do I find them? I started to search for rentals in my area and couldn't find them yet.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:45 PM   #9
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Can't help with where you would get one, it's a bit out of my area. There is another method of support where you put a needle through the wall (piece of 4x4 timber for example) and put the acrow props up under it each side of the wall. It's the old way and needs a hole knocking through the wall first.
Have you tried Diamond Tool?

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Old 03-30-2011, 04:57 PM   #10
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I'm looking around now. I see that strongboy is from UK. I may just purchase some directly from their site and keep them instead of renting. Who knows, I may need them again.

I love the idea of the strongboys. Just small slots and patch up the mortar later. Needling with 4x4's will leave bigger holes to patch and you need more of them. That'll give me less room to work around.

When using the strongboys, do I put them a block higher than where I want my lintel so they are out of the way?
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgrohol View Post
pre-cast concrete lintel: Since I have room on both sides of this door, I will shoot for an 8" on each side bearing to be safe. I have the room, why not. Would I just mortar this into place as any other block?

Yes

What would the steps be of putting in the lintel and the door while supporting the above block and structure?

I can't say I've ever seen the tool(s) that Stuart posted in person, only from him posting them in the past. Good concept, I'm just not sure where you might possibly find them here in the US w/o buying them. I've always done it by mounting a temp header to each side of the block wall (just above the new opening) with Tapcons, and supporting the floor joists with a temp wood wall. The specifics of the anchorments are a little more in depth than I feel comfortable disclosing on an open forum. (Read: I don't want to lead to your injury seeing as I've never seen the situation in person)


Do I cut the hole only for the lintel and get that in. Then cut the hole for the door?

It shouldn't really matter, as once you remove the block for the header the block below aren't holding anything any more. It's easier to install the lintel/header with the block out of the way.

Or do I cut it all out at once and support the above block? What do I support it with?

Also, I will be framing a wall on one side of this block wall. That room will eventually become a home gym. The framed wall will probably be around 1" away from the block wall. When I look for a door, can I get one with a jamb depth bigger than 8" to accommodate the wall?

I will be posting photos of the wall/area shortly as soon I as get some.
I was assuming you were talking about a hollow metal door, which is common place in commercial masonry construction. They typically only come in 5.25" wide jamb, but the 2" thickness of the jamb allows you enough room for a drywall return.
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:27 PM   #12
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:55 PM   #13
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Where's the door going to be?
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:58 PM   #14
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Where's the door going to be?
...............in the wall.....................
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:54 PM   #15
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ha ha ha.. yes in the wall. Right were it's not white. The white is drylok sealer. Didn't want to seal where the door would go.

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